Thank you. In case you can measure impedance/TSP yourself, double check. Normally 0.75 cuft sealed cabinet
should suffice but the Fb will be much better than what they claim (160). Beware of too much power input.
I would not bet 300W on 1.5" voice coil. Always keep an eye on cone excursion and let it not hit the plate.
Thx!
No, I can't hear any pre-echo.
I think due to only using complementary linear-phase crossovers, and no 'phase only' corrections.
System (sub) high-pass is minimum phase. No system low-pass.
I think it also helps to preclude pre echo, that the xovers are steep 96dB/oct, which allows c2c spacing between the sub and main's woofers to stay within 1/4 WL through -40dB summation ranges.
Which apparently is more than enough to squelch any audible non-complementary linear-phase summations off-ax, etc)
Make sense to you?
I apologize if I have misunderstood you. Perhaps you could elaborate on what you mean when you state that a speaker is never minimum phase. "Never" is a strong word.
j.
ah, i just saw the impulse response with pre echo but that must be from the lin phase low pass xover? as you say, the high pass is minimum phase so no pre echo from that. The low pass on the graph is about the same slope as the high pass? (you mentioned 96dB/ovtave)
Today I have been at a live concert with a big modern PA.
But the sound was dull and the bass had no beginning and no end in its impulse response.
Just one big wuhwoh wuhwoh wohwoh.
They can filter the bass until it sounds cleaner but they don't do that.
They exaggerate the bass loudness and the loudness in total.
I left the concert because of the annoying sound.
I talked to the technicians but for them all was sounding alright.
I know it can sound much better but its soooo rare at live events to hear good sounding music!
But the sound was dull and the bass had no beginning and no end in its impulse response.
Just one big wuhwoh wuhwoh wohwoh.
They can filter the bass until it sounds cleaner but they don't do that.
They exaggerate the bass loudness and the loudness in total.
I left the concert because of the annoying sound.
I talked to the technicians but for them all was sounding alright.
I know it can sound much better but its soooo rare at live events to hear good sounding music!
I have never heard a cinema sound system that impressed me. Sometimes it is acceptable, but only just barely acceptable. Most of the time it is not acceptable and it detracts from the movie experience.
I have never heard sound reinforcement at a live music event where I was not immediately aware that I was listening to amplified sound from a speaker. I have NEVER heard a live performance performance involving amplified male or female voice that actually sounded like the person singing... it always sounds like a person singing into a microphone and played through PA equipment.
I have often experienced exactly what you describe, "sound was dull and the bass had no beginning and no end in its impulse response. Just one big wuhwoh wuhwoh wohwoh."
Outdoor concert tents can have pretty good sound and yes sound technicians/mixers have important role. In my previous hometown we have Jysky Ilves who is master level, some pretty big names abandoned their own techs when visiting next time.
https://web.archive.org/web/20131228090454/http://www.keitelejazz.fi/?viite=55&id=55&sivu=69&kieli=0
https://web.archive.org/web/20131228090454/http://www.keitelejazz.fi/?viite=55&id=55&sivu=69&kieli=0
I was in Doha Hamad International airport a couple of weeks ago on my flight back to US from Singapore.
There was a kind of promotion going on and a DJ was on stage entertaining the crowd with Michael Jackson Billy Jean.
The music was really bad.
The bass was horrible, no clarity at all. The treble was too bright. Michael Jackson can hardly be heard.
It sounded very much like what you get from a big smiley curve with a graphic eq.
This is not the first time I encountered DJs like this.
Maybe to them, how loud they can go is their goal.
Seems that they have no appreciation for music.
Is the industry like that all the while?
There are a lot of different types of music/ audio nerds and many seem almost mutually exclusive to one another. On this very forum we have amplifier nerds who almost treat speakers as an after thought and we have multiway speaker nerds who are happy with any class d amp that measures sufficiently. Just because you like Dj-ing has nothing to do with caring about sound quality. Caring about sound quality has nothing to do with good taste in music. Some love to listen to Jennifer Warnes because of the wonderful recording quality and how good it makes their system sound, while some (me) would rather listen to Mal Waldron play an out of tune piano recorded with marginal sound quality. etc etc...
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I just love listening to jazz upright bass and drums with my sealed bass speakers!
https://tidal.com/browse/track/285378484?u
https://tidal.com/browse/track/285378484?u
I believe that dreadful bass stems from the 'More is More' attitude; extracting the lowest possible f3 and highest possible efficiency from any PA sub, then driving it to eleven. To me the acid test is replaying fast double pedal kick bass (Metallica et al), which always sound like an extended fart on most PA systems, instead of the machine gun-like ratatat it should be. Fast transient decay is imperative to make this happen, and massive dynamic headroom of the whole system.
Which you also quickly makes you realize how artificial most recordings are 😄😄😄
Key role to be totally ruin the good sound you did so much work for to get it right.
Talking from experience of designing these kinds of systems.
As always, there are good names and bad names out there.
How well known a name is, isn't always directly correlated to how competent they are.
They will eat the silly low dynamic range of most recordings and speakers for breakfast.
But I was mostly talking about tonality.
Although with orchestras and classical music it's not as bad as other styles of music. (There are many exceptions!!)
With tonality I don't mean if it sounds bad. Just only if it sounds accurate to real performances and/or instruments.
PA systems suffer from high tuned reflex ports and no damping inside.
It seems many sound technicians don't know how to filter them (shelving filter) plus they put the bass too loud and the mids and highs get drowned. You can easily do that by ear. Or put just the 30hz down if there is only multi band EQ.
It was a small intimate concert, they do not need big amplification at all. All was too loud.
It seems many sound technicians don't know how to filter them (shelving filter) plus they put the bass too loud and the mids and highs get drowned. You can easily do that by ear. Or put just the 30hz down if there is only multi band EQ.
It was a small intimate concert, they do not need big amplification at all. All was too loud.