I find myself listening to vinyl less and less, as I'm smitten by Amarra's Symphony using its IRC digital room/speaker/impulse correction.
Obviously I can't put a vinyl analog signal into Amarra , I could use an ADC to make digital files of a vinyl rip, but I'm wondering if anyone has figured out how to use a simple, very high quality ADC with USB and get it to work real time into something like Amarra, ie direct analog from a phono preamp into an ADC straight into a media player, and then into a dac . No files . Is this possible?
Obviously I can't put a vinyl analog signal into Amarra , I could use an ADC to make digital files of a vinyl rip, but I'm wondering if anyone has figured out how to use a simple, very high quality ADC with USB and get it to work real time into something like Amarra, ie direct analog from a phono preamp into an ADC straight into a media player, and then into a dac . No files . Is this possible?
supra, you might be interested in: Guide to Converting Analog Vinyl to Digital Files Using Macintosh or Guide to Converting Analog Vinyl To Digital Files Using Windows
Cheers, Mitch
Cheers, Mitch
What's the point? Why wouldn't you just rip the vinyl using a good ADC and then play the media files using the Amarra device in the future? To go from 'Vinyl > ADC > Media player > DAC > Amp/speakers' would be just the same as ripping every time you wanted to play it
Whats the point? To use my lovely vinyl system, and enjoying putting the cartridge in place , the whole vinyl experience that I sometimes miss. I agree its more complicated than it could be.
Hi Supra,
This is one of my longer term goals for my system but priority is getting the 'basics' working first. I had a conversation with forum user 'curryman' on the minidsp forum recently about the desire to have something like this.
I think an isolated transport would be preferable for the ADC.
I think a 'headamp' + ADC input buffer then do the RIAA correction in DSP would be my preference.
PSAudio have recently released something similar - NuWave Phono Converter | PS Audio
I think there are some other commercial products that use ADC in vinyl playback but that is the one that I remember right now.
I know there has been some discussion of an AKM ADC for measurements somewhere in the forum, perhaps it would be useful for this application? I think there are others working on PCM4222 and ESS ADC designs too but none have surfaced for much public discussion on them.
Regards,
Chris
This is one of my longer term goals for my system but priority is getting the 'basics' working first. I had a conversation with forum user 'curryman' on the minidsp forum recently about the desire to have something like this.
I think an isolated transport would be preferable for the ADC.
I think a 'headamp' + ADC input buffer then do the RIAA correction in DSP would be my preference.
PSAudio have recently released something similar - NuWave Phono Converter | PS Audio
I think there are some other commercial products that use ADC in vinyl playback but that is the one that I remember right now.
I know there has been some discussion of an AKM ADC for measurements somewhere in the forum, perhaps it would be useful for this application? I think there are others working on PCM4222 and ESS ADC designs too but none have surfaced for much public discussion on them.
Regards,
Chris
Supra,
I use a Behringer UCA-202 plugged into my phono stage to rip some vinyl. Despite it only having maximum 48Khz 16bit, the sound is surprisingly very good. Actually I find the sound of vinyl is largely due to the way the audio is mastered, which is quite different to how CD is mastered. This I have found to be the primary difference in sound between LP and CD. For many years I thought that LP was vastly superior sound quality to CD, but after I recorded some LP's to digital files, I found that the digital file sounds exactly (well, close enough) to playing LP, that I realised that it is not that vinyl has superior sound, but that I much prefer the way the audio is mastered for vinyl.
The Behringer UCA-202 is a good cheap device. I say this because when I compare rips of the LP to the same album on CD, I almost always get more detail from the vinyl rip. So no problems with detail from the Behringer! I believe that its ADC works better than its DAC. However upon measuring it, I can see that its self noise is at from memory -75db FS. So not quite up to redbook standards, but still better than the noise from my phono stage. Of course you could get a lower noise ADC if you want to spend more money.
I get much better rips when the speakers are not on during the recording process. It stops vibrations from getting back into the platter.
This is a good article on how vinyl is mastered. It explains a few things.
I hope you enjoy.
- Mastering for Vinyl : Recording Magazine -
I use a Behringer UCA-202 plugged into my phono stage to rip some vinyl. Despite it only having maximum 48Khz 16bit, the sound is surprisingly very good. Actually I find the sound of vinyl is largely due to the way the audio is mastered, which is quite different to how CD is mastered. This I have found to be the primary difference in sound between LP and CD. For many years I thought that LP was vastly superior sound quality to CD, but after I recorded some LP's to digital files, I found that the digital file sounds exactly (well, close enough) to playing LP, that I realised that it is not that vinyl has superior sound, but that I much prefer the way the audio is mastered for vinyl.
The Behringer UCA-202 is a good cheap device. I say this because when I compare rips of the LP to the same album on CD, I almost always get more detail from the vinyl rip. So no problems with detail from the Behringer! I believe that its ADC works better than its DAC. However upon measuring it, I can see that its self noise is at from memory -75db FS. So not quite up to redbook standards, but still better than the noise from my phono stage.
Of course you could get a lower noise ADC if you want to spend more money.I get much better rips when the speakers are not on during the recording process. It stops vibrations from getting back into the platter.
This is a good article on how vinyl is mastered. It explains a few things.
I hope you enjoy.
- Mastering for Vinyl : Recording Magazine -
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What's the point? Why wouldn't you just rip the vinyl using a good ADC and then play the media files using the Amarra device in the future? To go from 'Vinyl > ADC > Media player > DAC > Amp/speakers' would be just the same as ripping every time you wanted to play it
It's not the same at all. Ripping several thousand LPs is a mind numbing exercise. I would either have to hire someone (a till girl?) to do it or lose my mind. Besides, what if you get a much better ADC in a couple of years? Or a better cart? Do it again?
And unlike PS Audio, who were probably too cheap to incorporate a DSP i believe riia correction should be performed digitally and provide the benefit of multiple curves to match older LPs. So, once there is a nice ADC board to play with...
The only thing stopping me from digitizing my LPs is a good ADC that will do justice to the vinyl source I use at a reasonable price.
ADCs' have been used for decades in recording studios but the retail versions don't seem to be as good. Also I have IMO a first class phono stage and am building my own DAC, so I don't want an all-in-one, just an ADC.
I certainly don't mind buying s/hand pro stuff if I can get a really good transfer to hard disc - any suggestions?
ADCs' have been used for decades in recording studios but the retail versions don't seem to be as good. Also I have IMO a first class phono stage and am building my own DAC, so I don't want an all-in-one, just an ADC.
I certainly don't mind buying s/hand pro stuff if I can get a really good transfer to hard disc - any suggestions?
The Behringer UCA-202 should deal with even the best vinyl sources without any problems.
You should re-read my post here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/249537-adc-vinyl.html#post3790620
Behringer UCA-202 sounds good. If you don’t like it, you can sell it on an auction site for $10 less than you paid. Not a big hit to the pocket to try something!
If you want 96khz capability, then perhaps look at an M-Audio PCIe soundcard for around $100.
My personal opinion is that you wont need to record at higher bitrate than 16 bits / 88.2Khz Anything more is a waste of HDD space. Digital does not sound like analog, even if you sample at 32 bit / 384 or 64 bit /768 khz. Digital sounds like digital. It always will. Analog sounds like analog. You cant expect one to sound exactly like the other. They are different storage/ playback mediums. Hence sound different. Recording an LP to digial sounds very close to the orignal. It retains the sound of the LP mastering perfectly.
Why does CD sound different.
Three main reasons:
1) Mastering for vinyl is different.
2) A CD issue of a old recording uses a worn out master tape. You can not expect a tape recorded in the 1970's to be perfectly preserved. It deteriorates. I read an interview a while ago I think it was with engineer / producer Ken Scott (If wasnt him I appologise), who said that even the next day, a master tape did not sound the same as the previous day after recording, becuase the oxide particles in the tape want to re-align themselves to their original position. This is something he noticed in the 1970's.
3) Analog is a continuous waveform. Digital is a represenation of continuous waveform saved as steps. Expecting them to sound exactly the same is madness.
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I also build my own DACs and would like to build an ADC as I haven't much liked the look of the currently available commercial units. UCA-202 looks very good for the money but there are rather a large number of question marks in my mind over the performance as its using PCM2902. Why not build your own ADC as you're into building DACs?
Digital is a representation of continuous waveform saved as discrete samples (data points), not steps. Many DACs perform the conversion by first turning the data points into a step function and then using a reconstruction/reconstitution filter to recreate the original waveform. Others use technologies such as pulse density modulation. In any case, the output is a continuous analog waveform.
Hi erin,
I did see your original post with the rec. for the Behringer but unless that DAC can be bypassed I'd like to have the chance to try different DACs'
I don't know why I could'nt find the following before (quien save) - Die Homepage der Familie Beis - ADA24QS which uses a CS5361 or for extra a CS5381 @ €99-133 (does not include a chassis). www.rossmartinaudio.com - PCM4222 @$329 (finished article).
I would appreciate opinons on these 2 ADCs' from those who know a lot more than me.
I did see your original post with the rec. for the Behringer but unless that DAC can be bypassed I'd like to have the chance to try different DACs'
I don't know why I could'nt find the following before (quien save) - Die Homepage der Familie Beis - ADA24QS which uses a CS5361 or for extra a CS5381 @ €99-133 (does not include a chassis). www.rossmartinaudio.com - PCM4222 @$329 (finished article).
I would appreciate opinons on these 2 ADCs' from those who know a lot more than me.
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Erin,
I looked at lots of reviews of the Behringer, especially one that measured it's performance against some expensive opposition and the Behringer matched their parameters. I also read a critique of 24 bit against 16 bit which corroborates your position so yes I will buy it but will still experiment with others as I wanted a stand alone ADC.
And yes I know that analogue and digital sound are not the same but they can be very close. As you know I found that i/cs have a significant effect on CD replay so I can't see that this would'nt be true for connections to and from PC to DAC but of course will need a totally different spec from analogue.
I can't rule out a Burl B2 Bomber. The Burl is approx. $2500, a resale will recoup much of this and added to what my TT/arm/Cartridge/RCM and vinyl will fetch I can stand the small loss on resale.
The Burl is worth checking out especially if you have the readies/dinero to spare - nothing but outright praise from the pros'.
I looked at lots of reviews of the Behringer, especially one that measured it's performance against some expensive opposition and the Behringer matched their parameters. I also read a critique of 24 bit against 16 bit which corroborates your position so yes I will buy it but will still experiment with others as I wanted a stand alone ADC.
And yes I know that analogue and digital sound are not the same but they can be very close. As you know I found that i/cs have a significant effect on CD replay so I can't see that this would'nt be true for connections to and from PC to DAC but of course will need a totally different spec from analogue.
I can't rule out a Burl B2 Bomber. The Burl is approx. $2500, a resale will recoup much of this and added to what my TT/arm/Cartridge/RCM and vinyl will fetch I can stand the small loss on resale.
The Burl is worth checking out especially if you have the readies/dinero to spare - nothing but outright praise from the pros'.
Hi Black Stuart,
I agree with all your comments. I'm quite sure the Behringer wont dissapoint. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
I hope you will return to this thread and let us all know what you think of
the sound when you rip vinyl to digital, and the overall sound quality of the rip using the Behringer.
I agree with all your comments. I'm quite sure the Behringer wont dissapoint. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
I hope you will return to this thread and let us all know what you think of
the sound when you rip vinyl to digital, and the overall sound quality of the rip using the Behringer.
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