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Old 13th January 2013, 11:29 PM   #381
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I have measured the drivers again in the cabinet of post 363.
Putting the data into the simulator and playing around with the crossover values i can already see that the response is even better and i can get a steeper null.
That does not require any more components and no change in topology.
I am very close now to play the prototypes in my system.
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Old 14th January 2013, 09:16 AM   #382
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So, the Satori woofer is kind of a mix up oft the Scan Speak Revelator und the Illuminator series? Similar motordesign und bass capabilities as the Illuminators and most as resonance free as the Revelators? Also the retailprice is in between... it's not cheap!

As for the tweeter i would go for scan speak...
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Old 14th January 2013, 09:29 AM   #383
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In General: It's kind of an unusal design process. Normally you got a concept and then you choose the drivers and components that fit the best. Here the drivers are set and something has to be developed...

As we all know, the problem with those 2-way 1"/6,5" combos is the off-axis behavior. Either way, you have to cross very deep/sharp (<1,5 KHz) or you have to use some kind of waveguide to match the drivers.

I dont't believe in time correction for 2-way, at least i can't hear any effects. In 3- oder more way systems, with deeper and sharper crossing that's another story... in those cases i would go full digital/FIR anyway.
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Old 14th January 2013, 11:35 AM   #384
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Yes, the drivers are set. This is a thread about designing a kit for SB.
That is the reason i put it into Vendors Basar.
The time alignment of the drivers also helps to design a non phase linear crossover like an
L/R 4.
A passive L/R crossover with a flat baffle can be designed too but then we need all pass
elements to delay the tweeter. That makes the crossover more complex and also introduces additional phase distortion.
I did experiments on how much phase distortion is audible in the 90th with the University of Essex. We designed an active 2 way with DSP.
We made a 4th order L/R crossover and we could switch the phase distortion in or out.
With artificial pulses a small difference could be heard. With music it was much harder to differentiate.
In general i agree that a L/R 4 is a good compromise. I use an L/R2 here because the drivers are so wide band. I chose an L/R2 not only because it has less phase distortion then an L/R4 but also because the crossover topology is much simpler.
I think reducing losses by using less passive components in the crossover is a good idea.
When the speakers are ready i will also measure off axis to see how much problems i get there.
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Old 14th January 2013, 04:41 PM   #385
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Yes, ist pretty simple nowadays with a DSP to manipulate phase while switchting from IIR to FIR... i can't hear much difference in mids/high.

Mr Goertz (also german) also did some very early experiments with the so-called HUGO controller and proofed that the benefits of FIR/linear phase mostly apply to bass.

Therefore I think there are only small benefits for 2-Way Systems to be phase-linear.

I think what really matters is off-axis behavior and the interaction with your listening-room. Most of the studio monitors have come up with some interesting solutions to control radiation...
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Old 15th January 2013, 08:12 PM   #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKahuunaBob View Post
So, the Satori woofer is kind of a mix up oft the Scan Speak Revelator und the Illuminator series? Similar motordesign und bass capabilities as the Illuminators and most as resonance free as the Revelators? Also the retailprice is in between... it's not cheap!

As for the tweeter i would go for scan speak...
Do you know that SB's head designer Ulrich Schmidt is a former employee at Scan-Speak? He is responsible for most revelator drivers, also the metal-dome.

Personally i think he's extremely talented and also heard he've been writing a book 'bout how a perfect driver should be constructed.
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Old 18th January 2013, 02:31 PM   #387
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Yes Ulrik and his team are designing the SB drivers. I also know him from his time at Scan Speak.
The factory made cabinets have arrived. They look really cool and are perfectly made.
I will publish some photos soon.
I also bought components from Mundorf so i can make the crossovers over the weekend.
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Old 19th January 2013, 08:25 PM   #388
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I have now put the drivers into the factory made cabinets and did some photos.
The cabinets are so shiny that they are quite hard to photograph, especially at night and with flash. I hope you enjoy them nevertheless. I decided to put in the 8 Ohm version of the Satori woofer because i think that will be used most of the time. So we will have two designs.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Sat Mon Prof 1.jpg (635.4 KB, 965 views)
File Type: jpg Sat Mon Prof 2.jpg (558.2 KB, 926 views)
File Type: jpg Sat Mon Prof 3.jpg (577.3 KB, 914 views)
File Type: jpg Sat Mon Prof 4.jpg (519.6 KB, 875 views)
File Type: jpg Sat Mon Prof 5.jpg (511.8 KB, 859 views)
File Type: jpg Sat Mon Prof 6.jpg (658.2 KB, 516 views)
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Old 19th January 2013, 08:33 PM   #389
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Looks awesome! Very professional!
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Old 19th January 2013, 08:40 PM   #390
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Thanks.
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