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Old 16th December 2002, 04:36 PM   #1
HDTVman is offline HDTVman  United States
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Default The sound of parts

Is anyone interested in trying to discover ways to measure why different parts sound different?

It is plain to see that today, no two people can agree on why one cap or resistor sounds better or worse that another. What I am interested in doing is trying to develope a test methode to define the differences in parts that cause one part to sound different than an other. At the same time try, based on measurements and listening tests, quantify the differences.

To me the first step is to agree on a test bed and a way to deside if there is a difference that can be heard. Next is to come up with what tests we think might give clues to these differences in sound.

We all know that Frequency response, THD, IMD and other conventional tests don't tell the story so what we need is something different.

Any Ideas?

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Bruce
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Old 16th December 2002, 04:41 PM   #2
SY is offline SY  United States
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Yes, I have an idea. When you set up a test which eliminates bias and expectation, and that test shows that no one participating can hear a difference between a 20 cent Radio Shack resistor and some super-whammy fashionable tellurium film jobbie that costs $20, the test will be attacked as useless because it doesn't show the difference that "everyone knows" is there.

Religion is not amenable to test, otherwise the Catholic Church would use DNA testing to prove the reality of trans-substantiation.

So my idea is, "don't bother."
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Old 16th December 2002, 04:50 PM   #3
HDTVman is offline HDTVman  United States
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If you don't want to try that's fine. I'm not saying that there is a way to do this. I am interested in finding out what I can however.

On the other hand just because one person can't hear a difference doesn't mean there isn't one. That's why several listeners are needed along with a well defined test.

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Bruce
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Old 16th December 2002, 05:13 PM   #4
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Hi,

Quote:
Is anyone interested in trying to discover ways to measure why different parts sound different?
If only it could all be measured.

Bruce,I surely encourage this.

It would put a stop on discussions that are going on for thirty years,yes thirty,already.

To put it bluntly,I'm getting tired of convincing people that don't even want to try it out for themselves.

The only way,IMHO, those differences do show up is when you know exactly what to look for and can use differential analysis.

I'm much convinced that what we hear has little to do with THD.
One way to go would be FFT analysis...

Measuring differences in caps has already been done successfully by Walt&Jung and has been published in (I think) Audio Amateur in the eighties.

Personally I find resistors more challenging to measure unless you narrow down the field and only look at how these behave in series with the signal.
Even then it will hard to find a mathematical proof for the way they "sound"

Different materials are all going to sound different,that seems obvious to me.

If you don't mind I'd like to invite some experienced people to this thread.

Cheers,
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Old 16th December 2002, 05:28 PM   #5
HDTVman is offline HDTVman  United States
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Go for it Frank. I would value any constructive input.

This subject has been the home of much snake oil in the past as well as those who will tell you that all parts sound the same. I think the truth is some where in there. We just need to come up with reliable ways to find it.

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Bruce
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Old 16th December 2002, 05:31 PM   #6
dorkus is offline dorkus  United States
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isn't SY the same fellow who said DC is DC so all power supply regulators are pretty much the same...
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Old 16th December 2002, 05:39 PM   #7
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Hi,

Quote:
isn't SY the same fellow who said DC is DC so all power supply regulators are pretty much the same...
May be.

I'm the one who says an amplifier is nothing more than a modulated PSU.

Anyway let's not go off topic right from the start,shall we?

No offense Dorkus?
It's just that if we somehow can crack this nut it would be a major breakthrough.
Assuming of course it hasn't been done before.

Ciao,
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Old 16th December 2002, 05:42 PM   #8
dhaen is offline dhaen  Europe
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Well of course DC is DC; the problem is that it isn't....
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Old 16th December 2002, 05:43 PM   #9
dorkus is offline dorkus  United States
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I'm the one who says an amplifier is nothing more than a modulated PSU.

yup, i couldn't agree with you more.
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Old 16th December 2002, 06:14 PM   #10
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Hi John,

Actually I was hoping you had some clue on how to measure these subjective differences.

Maybe we just entered the quantum physics domain.

Cheers,
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