poobah said:
Hi Poobah,
nothing yet
Santa is disappeared and the whole Italian police is searching for him...Hello Mark,
first there are obviusly no SMD components in tube amps or preamps. Remember that tube technology is far older than SMD boards, and IMHO the best realizations (not the best sounding ones, the most reliable, neat, repair-friendly and easy to build) are point to point one. Do a search for this if you don't know how a point-to-point circuit looks like.
You can realize a good line preamp with anything from 0$ to infinite$, more toward zero if you can find old power transformers, salvaged tubes and sockets, etc etc... there are many preamp kits sold, I think that ordering everything from a good dealer you can build a tube preamp with 200-300$ with top-class components, and less with normal ones.
I'm building a complete preamp (even with phono stage), I'm not going to spend more than 100 euro on it, but I already have tubes and transformers, the machinery to drill holes etc etc...
quote:
Originally posted by SY
The practice of substituting different brands of tubes in and out, in and out, in and out, giving a casual listen each time, then pronouncing worthless opinions on the massive nonexistent differences.
Actually SY's answer is factual and well put. The only thing I accomplished was wearing out some sockets. I have a lot of different brands of 6SN7's and can only tell the difference with three of them. A set of Russian 1578's, 5692's, and some chrome top Sylvania's. So much for tube rollings imaginary magical differences.
Personally, I believe you can build a better piece for far less money. But then again I'm cheap.
Can anyone recommend a good red wine to go with my rump roast? I don't like corks either they have a funny taste.
Originally posted by SY
The practice of substituting different brands of tubes in and out, in and out, in and out, giving a casual listen each time, then pronouncing worthless opinions on the massive nonexistent differences.
Actually SY's answer is factual and well put. The only thing I accomplished was wearing out some sockets. I have a lot of different brands of 6SN7's and can only tell the difference with three of them. A set of Russian 1578's, 5692's, and some chrome top Sylvania's. So much for tube rollings imaginary magical differences.
Personally, I believe you can build a better piece for far less money. But then again I'm cheap.
Can anyone recommend a good red wine to go with my rump roast? I don't like corks either they have a funny taste.
Point to point looks very simple - I think I could manage that - I've done 3 years of electronic&electrical engineering in my mechanical engineering degree so I'm not afraid!Giaime said:
I like the idea of building my own - I could spend a bit more and get a really nice chassis made
I'd probably want a 2/3 input (with tape loop if thats possible) amp with a phono stage also.
How long would a pre-amp take to build - 20/30 hours?
I know these are quite general/generic questions - but I am a novice taking the first steps in learning!
Mark
Hi,ivegotmono said:
Thanks for the reply!
I cant hear it first as it is stocked in the phillipines! I have been told that I can send it back for a full refund if not happy, but I would have to cover the cost of shipping both ways.
I think you're right about going slow though - I generally do my research for a few months before buying something, but I suppose i've gotten a little over excited as I thought valve stuff was out of my reach for years (only ever seen/heard €5000+ stuff!)
Mark
Hi Mark,
Most of the time spent will be on planning, the actual assembly will be a lot easier.
In my case, my biggest deficiency is building the chassis. I've tried Hammond chassis, top plates with wooden base, and bent aluminum.
You need to carefully plan to layout the thing physically. I always want the power transformer and rectifiers away from the signal section. My Foreplay was laid out like that, and is very, very silent.
Drilling is another challenge- I use BradRad stepped drill bit to drill the holes for the tube sockets, the RCA, and more challenge on the fused IEC because it is not round.
Then finishing/painting the chassis.
I admire Peter Daniel's aluminum work, I wish I have the talent like him
On the circuit layout, I'm a fan of star grounding and have had great success with it.
On parts selection, I'd start with simple, readily available parts- I even used ElectroCube coupling capacitor on my Foreplay!
Botique parts will be icing on the cake when you finally decided that THIS IS the preamp for you.
Most of the time spent will be on planning, the actual assembly will be a lot easier.
In my case, my biggest deficiency is building the chassis. I've tried Hammond chassis, top plates with wooden base, and bent aluminum.
You need to carefully plan to layout the thing physically. I always want the power transformer and rectifiers away from the signal section. My Foreplay was laid out like that, and is very, very silent.
Drilling is another challenge- I use BradRad stepped drill bit to drill the holes for the tube sockets, the RCA, and more challenge on the fused IEC because it is not round.
Then finishing/painting the chassis.
I admire Peter Daniel's aluminum work, I wish I have the talent like him
On the circuit layout, I'm a fan of star grounding and have had great success with it.
On parts selection, I'd start with simple, readily available parts- I even used ElectroCube coupling capacitor on my Foreplay!
Botique parts will be icing on the cake when you finally decided that THIS IS the preamp for you.
Could I ask a favour:
"point-to-point wiring by an audio craftsman
audience wire
auricap
premium japanese resistors
over-rated filter caps
french switches
gold-plated ceramic sockets
over-rated transformers
choke regulated
bulgin iec connector
premium gold-plated connectors/terminal
thick guage heavy duty powder-coated chassis
handcrafted real wood sidings
responds to tube-rolling
takes any octal rectifier
blue diode pilot light "
What does all that mean - is it all the best of the best?
I'm really looking to build/buy something that will last me a lifetime (apart from changing valves etc)!
Cheers,
Mark
"point-to-point wiring by an audio craftsman
audience wire
auricap
premium japanese resistors
over-rated filter caps
french switches
gold-plated ceramic sockets
over-rated transformers
choke regulated
bulgin iec connector
premium gold-plated connectors/terminal
thick guage heavy duty powder-coated chassis
handcrafted real wood sidings
responds to tube-rolling
takes any octal rectifier
blue diode pilot light "
What does all that mean - is it all the best of the best?
I'm really looking to build/buy something that will last me a lifetime (apart from changing valves etc)!
Cheers,
Mark
Hi Mark,
And then reality kicks in. At some point, switches and controls need cleaning. Tube sockets as well. Electrolytic caps only last so long.
Now having said that, I have some tube stuff thats close to 40 yrs old and works fine after "going over" them. There exist many SS items (and tube) that didn't last 5 yrs. They are not repairable.
I think anything you build with reasonable quality switches should last over 20 years. (duration of a lifetime warranty) The main thing would be to keep components as cool as you reasonably can.
-Chris
And then reality kicks in. At some point, switches and controls need cleaning. Tube sockets as well. Electrolytic caps only last so long.
Now having said that, I have some tube stuff thats close to 40 yrs old and works fine after "going over" them. There exist many SS items (and tube) that didn't last 5 yrs. They are not repairable.
I think anything you build with reasonable quality switches should last over 20 years. (duration of a lifetime warranty) The main thing would be to keep components as cool as you reasonably can.
-Chris
Hi Arnold,arnoldc said:Hi Mark,
Most of the time spent will be on planning, the actual assembly will be a lot easier.
In my case, my biggest deficiency is building the chassis. I've tried Hammond chassis, top plates with wooden base, and bent aluminum.
You need to carefully plan to layout the thing physically. I always want the power transformer and rectifiers away from the signal section. My Foreplay was laid out like that, and is very, very silent.
Drilling is another challenge- I use BradRad stepped drill bit to drill the holes for the tube sockets, the RCA, and more challenge on the fused IEC because it is not round.
Then finishing/painting the chassis.
I admire Peter Daniel's aluminum work, I wish I have the talent like him
On the circuit layout, I'm a fan of star grounding and have had great success with it.
On parts selection, I'd start with simple, readily available parts- I even used ElectroCube coupling capacitor on my Foreplay!
Botique parts will be icing on the cake when you finally decided that THIS IS the preamp for you.
Thanks for the reply!
The chassis shouldnt be a problem - I'm currently doing engineering in University so the workshops are always there!
I cant wait for that moment when I finish the amp and switch it on. As long as it works!
Hi Chris,anatech said:
When I said last a lifetime, I suppose i was being a little idealistic. Even my fathers Meridian amps have needed a service every 10 years or so! I suppose what I meant was gain a knowledge that would last me a life time!
Cooling i assume is done by good chassis design and keeping valves open and not enclosed!
Mark
Now SY,
I agree with you on most points. However, there is nothing suitable for Jerry Lewis movies. Without Dean, he's just not funny. Okay, he's not funny, period.
Mark, SY brings up a very good point. When someone is talking about all the specialty parts, they are distracting you from the lack of design work. My fav comment. It was designed by ear. Run!
-Chris
I agree with you on most points. However, there is nothing suitable for Jerry Lewis movies. Without Dean, he's just not funny. Okay, he's not funny, period.
Mark, SY brings up a very good point. When someone is talking about all the specialty parts, they are distracting you from the lack of design work. My fav comment. It was designed by ear. Run!
-Chris
QUOTE & COMMENTS
"point-to-point wiring by an audio craftsman
** You will be the craftsman... that's the point... don't get weird and bend your wires with hard 90's... bad for the metal (you know that)
audience wire - silly
** Tin-plated copper solders nice. Teflon insulation is nice because it doesn't shrink back if you newbie to middlebie soldering skills, teflon wire often comes silver plated wire that's fine too, won't make it sound better but you can brag like hell. For P to P wiring a roll of 18 AWG "bus wire" and matching teflon tubing (^$) rock for speed and ease.
auricap - silly
** film/ foil polypropylene, 715P Orange Drop, cheap, good,
premium japanese resistors - silly
A steak in Japan is $35, at their equivalent of "Sizzler" and it is very small... everything is a premium in Japan
over-rated filter caps - silly
** properly engineered and selected caps.
french switches - hmmmm
ever owned a Citroen or Peugot?... 'nuff said.
gold-plated ceramic sockets - OK
** Don't tube roll or the precious gold is gone.
over-rated transformers - Well now
** Put every nickel you can into proper transformers, well specified, and built, beyond design and topology, they are the ultimate sound of your amp, This applies much less to power transfomers though... output transformers (you will wind up building a power amp after your pre) and the engineering between them and the output tubes is essential. As far as power trans are concerned, always keep availability in mind when designing the rest of the amp. You may get hosed on OPT's, and for good reason, you don't have to get hosed on power traniies though.
choke regulated - good if needed
** I regularly regulate my children... choking works.
bulgin iec connector - whatever
premium gold-plated connectors/terminal - OK
** gold is nice see above, don't spend ^$ though... it's 10 cents worth of gold at best.
thick guage heavy duty powder-coated chassis - COOL
** you can also get bright nickel plating for about the same bucks
handcrafted real wood sidings - it's all about you!
** Wood sides avoids folded metal ($) and more people of have woodworking tools.
responds to tube-rolling - bad
** Poorly designed, see SY and Chris above.
takes any octal rectifier - minutia
** Rectal, octal, fractal, all good.
blue diode pilot light - what's YOUR favorite color?
A few things you forgot:
Speakers wires: some very seasoned and learned engineers recommend 12 - 14 AWG lamp cord, there is some reason to believe that shielded cables may offer benefits in areas of high RF and amplifiers with high amounts of NFB. I personally recommend Poobah's "Liquiphonic Hosings"... very spendy though (see thread: "Interconnects, Lies and Myths")... for the very best in liquid and transparent sound.
Interconnects: gold, again, is nice... don't engage in cable rolling or you suffer a similar plight.
Power cords: oh jeeze... you get the picture. However, line filters are only about 15 - 20 bucks, and the "line" gets noiser with every SMPS we add.
Whew!
Dude, there are tube gods here, and they ALL steadfastly deny it: SY, Eli D, Anatech, Kevinkr, Tubelab et al (please forgive me for the gods I didn't mention). There are protagonists and antagnonists here... it's the whole play ( I belong in none of these categories). I design 60 Hz oscillators with 100 - 300 kW outputs... so I am not so qualified.
Get on it... and don't spend your $$ on silly s**t
Cheers,
"point-to-point wiring by an audio craftsman
** You will be the craftsman... that's the point... don't get weird and bend your wires with hard 90's... bad for the metal (you know that)
audience wire - silly
** Tin-plated copper solders nice. Teflon insulation is nice because it doesn't shrink back if you newbie to middlebie soldering skills, teflon wire often comes silver plated wire that's fine too, won't make it sound better but you can brag like hell. For P to P wiring a roll of 18 AWG "bus wire" and matching teflon tubing (^$) rock for speed and ease.
auricap - silly
** film/ foil polypropylene, 715P Orange Drop, cheap, good,
premium japanese resistors - silly
A steak in Japan is $35, at their equivalent of "Sizzler" and it is very small... everything is a premium in Japan
over-rated filter caps - silly
** properly engineered and selected caps.
french switches - hmmmm
ever owned a Citroen or Peugot?... 'nuff said.
gold-plated ceramic sockets - OK
** Don't tube roll or the precious gold is gone.
over-rated transformers - Well now
** Put every nickel you can into proper transformers, well specified, and built, beyond design and topology, they are the ultimate sound of your amp, This applies much less to power transfomers though... output transformers (you will wind up building a power amp after your pre) and the engineering between them and the output tubes is essential. As far as power trans are concerned, always keep availability in mind when designing the rest of the amp. You may get hosed on OPT's, and for good reason, you don't have to get hosed on power traniies though.
choke regulated - good if needed
** I regularly regulate my children... choking works.
bulgin iec connector - whatever
premium gold-plated connectors/terminal - OK
** gold is nice see above, don't spend ^$ though... it's 10 cents worth of gold at best.
thick guage heavy duty powder-coated chassis - COOL
** you can also get bright nickel plating for about the same bucks
handcrafted real wood sidings - it's all about you!
** Wood sides avoids folded metal ($) and more people of have woodworking tools.
responds to tube-rolling - bad
** Poorly designed, see SY and Chris above.
takes any octal rectifier - minutia
** Rectal, octal, fractal, all good.
blue diode pilot light - what's YOUR favorite color?
A few things you forgot:
Speakers wires: some very seasoned and learned engineers recommend 12 - 14 AWG lamp cord, there is some reason to believe that shielded cables may offer benefits in areas of high RF and amplifiers with high amounts of NFB. I personally recommend Poobah's "Liquiphonic Hosings"... very spendy though (see thread: "Interconnects, Lies and Myths")... for the very best in liquid and transparent sound.
Interconnects: gold, again, is nice... don't engage in cable rolling or you suffer a similar plight.
Power cords: oh jeeze... you get the picture. However, line filters are only about 15 - 20 bucks, and the "line" gets noiser with every SMPS we add.
Whew!
Dude, there are tube gods here, and they ALL steadfastly deny it: SY, Eli D, Anatech, Kevinkr, Tubelab et al (please forgive me for the gods I didn't mention). There are protagonists and antagnonists here... it's the whole play ( I belong in none of these categories). I design 60 Hz oscillators with 100 - 300 kW outputs... so I am not so qualified.
Get on it... and don't spend your $$ on silly s**t
Cheers,
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.