Sound Quality Vs. Measurements

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Isn't that exactly right. I remember when I first saw flat TV's the Pioneers were the ones that impressed. I told my friends ask to watch standard TV especially black and white. If it doesn't look good don't buy it. I remember seeing Bilko on a good TV. It make a big difference. Bilko although black and white is HD if from original prints rather than videotape.
 
Hi Scott. I saw the other day although not analog some small CRT monitors still exist and are still made. If I find the link I will post it . Not sure why or how as it seems they are not that useful. The comment about analogue was from my BBC friend Lucy who said If the public had ever seen broadcasts in the control room HD would be no big deal. She especially remembered 1968 and US video tapes the BBC bought. Best ever she said. Colours were what she remembered.

Thanks for posting comparative VHS and Beta. As I remembered they were not very different. Your version tells why U-matic so good.

Welcome to Ikegami USA Web Page

Say Hi to Lucy from me, she's dead right.

A good studio will always have a small, unpresuming, almost agricultural looking black box, with "Sony" written on it in a corner. It has a 39 or 43 cm digaonal CRT and is also called "Calibration Monitor".

It serves as the calibration reference point for the entire studio, meaning that everywhere else, including the studio cameras, colours are adjusted with this monitor as a reference. Even the ENG camera gear is adjusted with it as a reference, basically via a simple row of inputs; if it's off, a technician is sent to his room to readjust the camera.

If you look at its picture, your first instinctive response is like "This is not possible! No TV can possibly ever have such a picture!", yet there is it, and it does have such a picture. In a word - incredible! Razor sharp image is an exercise in understatement. I have never seen a picture as good as that one on anything, never mind the price. My 37" diagonal LED LG TV is literally stone age picture in comparison, and only in full HD does it begin to remind me of that li'l Sony.

Then again, hearing its price, around € 9,000, or about US$ 12,000, you begin to understand.

So, Nige's friend Lucy is just one of many TV broadcast professionals who rely on that unassuming black box for quality picture.
 
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This reminds me of what I've wanted to say for quite some time.

Audio buffs really should pay more attention to professional gear.Some really nice things are happening there, even if their priorties are slightly different to the consumer sector's. In my view, some of these differences go dead against the usual (mis)concepts present in the boutique audio, such as output stage protection, for example. Or dimensioning the output stage.

A good example would be JBL's 6230 power amp, later also sold as JBL/Urei device. It flies in the face of most audio home stuff, but boy oh boy, does it work well or what! It uses only 3 pairs of output devices, but they actually built the whole amp around MJE 340/350 devices, from the first complementary input stage onwards. And they let those devices rip, keeping them in deep class A. Not unlike John's 1205 amp, for example, his only work I have heard at home, but some creep nicked it under my nose.

Also, build quality on many pro devices is classes above home brews with 1" thick aluminium fascias.

A different ball game.
 
diyAudio Senior Member
Joined 2002
Hi,

I want to build a very simple RIAA stage with perhaps other EQ's. I might be lazy and use some op amps as this has been successful in the past. My old dog Quads 33 has got me thinking. I have some military EF 86 and 2SB970 BC327/337 and mostly any nice op-amp in the shed ( even some LM347 I found ! ) . The one EF 86 with shunt input feedback is one I like. I don't like building a 6.3 V supply. My instinct is it can work with 2SB970 as the voltages are fine. I have some 2SA 872A also and can get 2SA1085. BC 327/337 are also low noise ( 0.65 nV / Hz ) . I probably will do the 75 uS in the second stage ( usually first when I did op amps ) . The design I doodled yesterday would easily do that. If the op amp had good bandwidth it could be active. That is gain, buffering, EQ in one hit. I have never tried EF 86 with MC. It might just work if the op amp gave the gain. If so passive 75 uS. After all a microphone has about modern MC output when a high quality type ( 700 uV ). I have used cascaded ECC83 with MC. Absolutely no obvious hiss. An old RCA design in a Radio Shack book that they obviously never tested as it had far too much gain for MM and distorted like a guitar amp. On MC is was sublime. Attempts to make it MM ruined the sound. If I did it again I would add shunt feedback to valve No 1. It could be removed for MC.

Talking last night to my friend John we got on to Nu Vista's in Neumann microphones. John said something that made my blood boil. He liked the sound of the Nu Vista. I said nonsense. He likes the low noise and low distortion of the Nu Vista which is better than any transistor in this application. John conceded the point and said only one problem. The bias for the microphone is also the heater supply. Even though the Nu Vista isn't direct heated this crazy idea ruins the noise performance. Even with two regulators in series it is not quiet enough. Me thinks the cathode should be on a CCS(ink) and that would make the g1 just connected to the capsule. Perhaps John hasn't looked carefully as a PSU to the grid seems unlikely. With CCS an AC supply should be OK if hum bucked. DC heating isn't always what you might imagine. John made and interesting point. The reason valves sound good is virtually no load on the microphone capsule and virtually no capacitance compared with other methods ( a PSU no capacitance ? ) . J Fet being worse. I was very annoyed he slipped into standard speaking mode. Not least as he knew the truth. I told him something he didn't know. Some prefer pentodes used as pentodes on these microphones ( sometimes in 1940's that's all they had ) . The reason being such a small bit of the curve is used so as to not make a big difference in distortion. The pentode should have even less capacitance. Doubtless the hiss a bit more colourful when a pentode. 1/f noise I am told and not so much partition noise. How the g2 grid was set I don't know. My guess is almost triode.

This was good reading.

Discrete design: 2-transistor RIAA preamp

If you're looking for a MC pre-preamp stage then why not consider CCS loaded //ed E88CCs using a J-Fet as the CCS and the grid biased close to zero V ?

Or, should you want more gain, use //ed single triodes such as EC86s?
You could even consider a cascode of these but be ware of the low PSRR...

As for NuVista, do you mean nuvistor?

I posted such a stage before, it works great with absolutely no hiss issues whatsoever.
Noise is always an issue but I find it far less intrusive sonically when using valves given the PS is quiet enough.

Cheers, ;)
 
Nuvistor. It is so long since I saw it written. The active load EF 86 looks an idea. I will try the Leak circuit as I know and like it. However I do have some nice transistors which could work in similar circuits. The idea is to do 3180/318 active and the 75 uS passive. I looked at the Tobey Dinsdale one of the mid 1960's .Very interesting. I shuddered a bit at the Douglas Self Lenco circuit. Working in transconductance. That's all we need a preamp with slewing issues. Probably not but it makes me doubt it.

Dejan . My friend John is going to get out all of his amps for me to try. Amcron DC300, C Audio and MC2. Will be fun to know if John is right. He says these Pro Audio amps at least as good as hi fi amps. DC300 was both. I heard the DC 300 at his house and instantly liked it. He has a STD turntable for me to set up. I only ever hear three at most. It was a contender with Linn for a while. The last one I sold was to a Betty Golding in Aylesbury. Wonder how she is, it's 25 years.

JVC VHS. I can remember the first thing I ever taped. The Abominable Dr Phibes. I strongly recommend it.
 
Domestic TVs and Monitors are rarely calibrated correctly, so I am curious as to what you mean by usual calibration standard?
My photo monitor I use a ColorMunki, may try it on a TV sometime if it will work?
Nothing high tech, I initially used a Joe Kane DVD (DVE) which in spite of many iterations of slightly tweaking in one direction, and then the other, still didn't give a colour balance that felt right. In particular, the greens weren't convincing, on something like a gardening show - so that is exactly what I ended up using: we have quite an expanse of greenery seen from the living room windows, so I would wait for greenery broadcasts, and then correlate by eye what was on the screen, versus outside. Bit by bit I got the greens to fully synchronise, and of course the other biggie is skin tones - with both of those properly aligned everything else falls into place. In particular, it's easy to see normal broadcast colour, vs. someone in the control room hyping the Colour setting, for extra impact!! :rolleyes:
 
I have always been a fan of positive feedback. When a little boy my dad told me how he got into trouble in the RAF for having a reaction radio.

This phono stage uses positive feedabck and claims it works very well. I sort of feel it might. Didn't have much time to read it and off to bed now. Like the Tailor of Gloucester I might wake up to my work done?

inDiscreet Phono Pre-amplifier [English]
 
It serves as the calibration reference point for the entire studio, meaning that everywhere else, including the studio cameras, colours are adjusted with this monitor as a reference. Even the ENG camera gear is adjusted with it as a reference, basically via a simple row of inputs; if it's off, a technician is sent to his room to readjust the camera.

If you look at its picture, your first instinctive response is like "This is not possible! No TV can possibly ever have such a picture!", yet there is it, and it does have such a picture. In a word - incredible! Razor sharp image is an exercise in understatement. I have never seen a picture as good as that one on anything, never mind the price. My 37" diagonal LED LG TV is literally stone age picture in comparison, and only in full HD does it begin to remind me of that li'l Sony.
Been there, done that, :D. About, oooh, 15 years ago went to a graphics technology trade show, and they had a couple of those beasts tucked away in a little corner, barely there. But the quality!! ... a football match being played, on a close up you could see the individual blades of grass, it was amazing stuff!

Every conventional TV picture is rubbish in comparison, as you say ...
 
With wines, quality is a relative thing ... easily the worst stuff I have ever sampled are overseas efforts, usually from France; priced as if they were decent stuff, they were riddled with faults - coloured fluids suitable for use under the hood of a car, in some way, perhaps ...

Frank you are running on empty here, why not keep it to audio and your TV speakers.
 
Dejan, what Australia excels at is making fault-free wine, value for money product. You can go to a wine store, pick up any bottle - 95% or so of wines are locally made - and it will be perfectly drinkable, every time. May not be brilliant, but it won't make you grimace - unlike some imported rotgut. We do have problems going to more elevated quality levels, in part because the market is just not there for it locally, we won't pay silly money for a bottle ...
 
Nothing high tech, I initially used a Joe Kane DVD (DVE) which in spite of many iterations of slightly tweaking in one direction, and then the other, still didn't give a colour balance that felt right. In particular, the greens weren't convincing, on something like a gardening show - so that is exactly what I ended up using: we have quite an expanse of greenery seen from the living room windows, so I would wait for greenery broadcasts, and then correlate by eye what was on the screen, versus outside. Bit by bit I got the greens to fully synchronise, and of course the other biggie is skin tones - with both of those properly aligned everything else falls into place. In particular, it's easy to see normal broadcast colour, vs. someone in the control room hyping the Colour setting, for extra impact!! :rolleyes:

How do you cater for the colour temperature of the outside light etc, I prefer calibration disk or similar for TV and set it to a known standard, though I must admit I haven't done the TVs for ages, I never watch it these days. Though I am going to see if I can use a colormunki on my TVs
 
To save going silly about it, I've adjusted for optimum colour for daylight, with sun. Then, I use 3 pairs of setting of brightness and contrast: full sun, strongly overcast and night. Which gives me visible gradations of the full range of the set's blacks in each environment, and the same for the whites. This I find very satisfactory, because at night there is not much colour around to compare with.

Like you, I barely watch the thing; my wife is fully addicted though - and if I do watch something with natural colours in it, outdoor scenes, etc, I prefer for it to gell with my sense of how it should be. Just a little thing, but it was worth going through the exercise, there's just a sense of rightness when anything's on that's interesting ...
 
Just curious, I did notice a huge difference in monitors when I did it properly (colormunki) vs manual with test cards...and the best thing was prints matching. Years ago I had a Sony CRT rear projection that I had professionally calibrated once, looked fantastic, true colours but I couldn't afford it every years, and some preferred the horrible high contrast, gaudy colours dazzling brightness that they set the TVs too to look good in a showroom...
 
Frank . The problem with French wine is they keep the good stuff. Also over here I have to be totally honest the wine to avoid is Australian. One perpetual Christmas pudding. As subtle as a sledge hammer. The whites also seemed to have a forest of oak trees distilled in them. I think other people have thought the same as suddenly Australian wines are in the bargain bins. So I risked a few and what do you know the quality is up and very nice. I can't really drink red wines these days. Instant headaches. I do to please people. White from red grapes no problem, Rose also. Favourite white wines would be New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc from Marlborough region or Shingle Peak are worth the extra. French wines of the same grape cheaper and very good. Chile superb value . I had recently Telegraph Station Semillon from SE Australia, excellent. I drink a bit of Cava as it is honest and good value. Heston Blumenthal ( spelling ) says use a Soda Stream to fizz quality white wines. I have resisted so far. If you want to impress a wine snob and his wife who probably like me just likes the taste try Sancerre. Then follow with a nice bottle of Shingle Peak and ask how well the NZ's are doing ? I would probably finish with a nice Cava or Austrian fizz. If the invited guest is a snob well that's his problem. Knowing me his wife interests me more and if she is happy so am I. With any luck that didn't cost you more than $60. Reds are risky. A bad year Margeaux is worth a risk . If it's that bad it goes out as Vin de Table. Port is a better bet as the appreciation factor is high and price is not if advice is sort. Sadly Australia had some of the best Port type wines. It was grubbed up to give us French-USA wine clones. A very risky choice is Moulin a Vent ( Gamay, tastes much like a Burgundy and much cheaper for a Cru wine , Chateau Texier also ). Myself I would be over the moon to drink that

Now the best bit. I became an accidental wine expert as I lived in the south of France many months of each year. The wines were simple and didn't travel well. Like listening to cables that isn't easy to prove. Then the Australians turned up with their Carbonic Maceration process. Suddenly the wines had complexity. Forget oak barrel, it's the cool fermentation that works. It was said the soil was no good for great wines. Not really true. The Burgundy is cooler so helps greatly. It also looses complete crops as frost is the enemy. Paraffin ( Kerosene ) burners at vast cost save the grapes. The yield of a Burgundy vineyard is about the worse in France.

I could well believe like the Germans sending us horribly sweet wines as we liked in Queen Victoria's days it is the mind set of the exporter ( Hock was her name for it Hochheim was the village she visited I think? ). Australia sends us Christmas pudding wines. German white wine from Rheingau is one of my favourites and their reds . Colleen because she won't believe it won't drink it. Good German wines are very perfumed, complex and dry as a bone. Fabulous value.

The best red wine I had recently was in Croatia. Zinfandel red and it was not anything like you would imagine, peppery and exquisite . Croatia claims it as their own grape well liked by Italy. Organic and no headache. Best Rose was Tunisian, old French vineyard run with Italian help. Best Rose is like best turntable. I love Rose wines.

The only red wine in the house is 2011 La Patrie, Cahors of the Malbec grape. Almost a black-red wine. One white I haven't drunk for years is Muscadet Sevre et Maine. I have never known a French person drink it without a meal ( fish ). It seems daft as it is a great wine for the price, looking forward to it and it was cheap. Not sweet regardless of the grape which is also an eating grape. The grape that makes Sherry Pedro Gimenez ( Pedro Ximenez ) makes very OK table wine and is not sweet. Some say the table wine version is a generic. I have had it in Spain and it is ordinary stuff for every day drinking .
 
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