Battery option isnt better nor cheaper. Have you noticed the Zout increases as the battery discharges? That means the sound deteriorates as you listen to it. Not 
. Can have a large series L, too. Put inside the preamp? Power a power amp with batteries? Dual tracking regs do very well. Whats the resisteance to using dual tracking regulators? Thx-RNMarsh
. Can have a large series L, too. Put inside the preamp? Power a power amp with batteries? Dual tracking regs do very well. Whats the resisteance to using dual tracking regulators? Thx-RNMarsh
Not a problem, you can keep your caps on. To be serious one second, my home made headphone amplifier runs both on batteries and AC, and sound much better on batteries.
Lithium ion batteries keeps quite flat voltage and low z during > 80% of their operation.
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Christophe
I suspect we are saying the same thing. I am referring to the simple case of the single cap across the collectors. If just viewed as a battery I think the operation is fairly clear, both collectors move in the same direction opposite that of the load voltage. So relative to ground each collector now mirrors the load voltage through both positive and negative excursion.
Coupled inductors certainly improve cross-regulation
Thanks
-Antonio
My approach is see everything from the wall plug on as one continuum, there is just one electrical circuit processing audio; no nice, little, separated black boxes doing their own thing, oblivious to their siblings. And, to assume what's being fed into that wall plug is as nasty as can be, that on the immediately adjacent socket is a heavy duty arc welder going full bore ...
This has helped me get clean sound, and IMO it would be be a major struggle to get acceptable results otherwise ...
Frank
This has helped me get clean sound, and IMO it would be be a major struggle to get acceptable results otherwise ...
Frank
And, why does your little amp sound better with batteries? What characteristic of the amp makes the battery better for it than what ever your wall/ac supply circuit does not do as well?
There have been plenty of cases where just the opposite has been reported... without any knowledge reported on the amp PSR and the supply topology. Its too wide open to be able to comment without knowing all the details, so broad judgements shouldnt be made.
-RNM
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I told-it: both ground noises (ac leakeages) and cleaner rails at hf (ac + diodes noises). I presume, because how to be sure what are the reasons, but the difference is obvious: stronger and drier basses, more separation and more fluid trebles.
Looking at the rails on an oscillo, the thickness of the line is finer.
There is a good reason why Mr. Hiraga had build his monster amp (8W class A), powered by batteries.
The OPA used (with bipolar current boost) have a high psrr.
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There's so much information in that "line", telling you what's going on. If it was precisely captured, and analysed, I would suggest that one could quite accurately predict the subjective qualities of the sound ...
Frank
Various HF noises, Electromagnetic induction from the transfo etc. and then ?
There is a limit on what you can or want to do, both on an ergonomic point of view and in a financial one. For what i need, both in AC and with batteries, this little portable (professional) tool made the job: Provide headphones monitoring.
Another critical behaviour is the effect of the load: as the volume varies so will the line vary, especially if the amp is class AB. The higher the power being drawn, and the more irregular the current draw the more profound the impact.
The Hiraga amp wins because the rail variations would be very benign ...
Frank
The Hiraga amp wins because the rail variations would be very benign ...
Frank
Technically it was a hybrid. It used an AC power supply coupled with batteries to hold the voltage.
se
can you say then that high psrr in amp is not so important to sound performance?
Thx-RNMarsh
yep
like these or these, or these!!!
supercaps or ultracaps are part way to a battery. finding uses in UPS and in cars, I believe they are using them in indy cars for a boost they can use a couple times a race, charged with breaking energy. no chemical reaction, just storage. its definitely a growth area and they will get cheaper. I believe there is a new technology that allows a graphene type material to be made in a solution and sprayed onto surfaces.
they'll get cheaper and I notice theyve boosted the voltage handling since last time I looked. most are still pretty low voltage though.
like these or these, or these!!!
supercaps or ultracaps are part way to a battery. finding uses in UPS and in cars, I believe they are using them in indy cars for a boost they can use a couple times a race, charged with breaking energy. no chemical reaction, just storage. its definitely a growth area and they will get cheaper. I believe there is a new technology that allows a graphene type material to be made in a solution and sprayed onto surfaces.
they'll get cheaper and I notice theyve boosted the voltage handling since last time I looked. most are still pretty low voltage though.
As habit, impossible to generalize. I believe that, if you do not hear the hum/hiss and if the amp does not produce IM distortion with the rail's noise (high bandwidth) , the answer could be no ? I presume that, if the rails are clean, you don't care ?
In all the other circumstances, of course, it is important. Ultimately, everything lies on the quality of the rails, specially in dynamic mode. An amp is as good as its power supply is.
About you saying that some people prefer AC power than Battery operation, are-you sure the problem is not some use of a virtual ground with battery, as often ?
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Okay Qusp,
You are referring to the kinetic energy storage used in an F1 car to store power for an electric motor assist. How are those capacitors really different except for size and perhaps the charging rate and discharge rates? The last example would be real nice in a portable headphone amp, you could carry them in a backpack!
You are referring to the kinetic energy storage used in an F1 car to store power for an electric motor assist. How are those capacitors really different except for size and perhaps the charging rate and discharge rates? The last example would be real nice in a portable headphone amp, you could carry them in a backpack!
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no real difference except for those, just much larger values than previously available in such small spaces and very high charge/discharge rates. thats just what they are actually called, super-capacitors, notice where I linked they are in the super-capacitors section at mouser.
correct thats what they will use in F1 (I nearly put that but wasnt sure) and even some of the much more mundane cars here have them, as well as some electric bikes will have them for low RPM, high torque needs like hill starts etc.
hehe for that money I could pay someone else to carry my backpack amp with plain batteries =)
correct thats what they will use in F1 (I nearly put that but wasnt sure) and even some of the much more mundane cars here have them, as well as some electric bikes will have them for low RPM, high torque needs like hill starts etc.
hehe for that money I could pay someone else to carry my backpack amp with plain batteries =)
As the development of electric cars, i suppose we can hope great improvements in electric storage with light, low volume and high current devices in the near future.
Those super capacitors are a nice bridge between caps and batteries.
If i had understood well, they use both chemical operation, like batteries, and static one, like caps. Is is not parallelized batteries +caps, it is one cell using the two principle at once. Following the way they are designed, manufacturers can vary the respective amout of the both energy storages.
Because they are expensive, at this time, i believe we can mimic them at lower price, paralleling traditional batteries+ caps at the price of a more complicated management of charging currents and operating voltages ?
(Yes, they are used in some Formula one 'KERS', in concurrence with mechanical devices, using flywells, i believe electric KERS already wons )
Those super capacitors are a nice bridge between caps and batteries.
If i had understood well, they use both chemical operation, like batteries, and static one, like caps. Is is not parallelized batteries +caps, it is one cell using the two principle at once. Following the way they are designed, manufacturers can vary the respective amout of the both energy storages.
Because they are expensive, at this time, i believe we can mimic them at lower price, paralleling traditional batteries+ caps at the price of a more complicated management of charging currents and operating voltages ?
(Yes, they are used in some Formula one 'KERS', in concurrence with mechanical devices, using flywells, i believe electric KERS already wons )
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Don't know that they'd do as good a job as a battery. Rather more energy stored in a battery. Plus the super caps are pretty low voltage so you'd have to string a number of them together in series and then if you wanted to maintain the same capacitance, a number of those in parallel.
I think instead of super caps, rather than eliminating the battery, just use a different battery technology than Hiraga used, i.e. lithium polymer versus lead acid.
se
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