If it says Patek-Philip on the dial then you've got yourself a fake
Anyone buying a timepiece costing over $50 is not buying a device to keep the time, he's buying something else - design, moniker, known price tag or whatever.
Mechanical watches make no sense any more anywhere but for use in space, where it is a must due to solar storms. That leaves, practically speaking, just two companies, Omega as used by NASA, and Fortis, as used by the Russian Space Agency.
Practically all others, save for Rolex, Zenith, IWC (Schaffhousen), Eterna, Patek Philipe and very few ultra expensive brands who still make their own movements, eveybody else uses straight or modified ETA mechanisms. The Japanese have their own gig.
Once brands known for their professional work and timepieces, such as Tag Heuer and Breitling to name just two, make exclusive packages with cheap ETA movements inside. FYI, the best quartz version of ETA movement, more precise than any COSC approved mechanical watch, costs just €65 in quantity.
Actually, I have worn mechanical watches for the last 20-25 yrs or so. Currently daily beater is a Seiko '5' (SNKL35) which uses the long running 7S26 movement. I wouldn't want an expensive watch for the simple reason that they are a liability rather than an investment. I believe the 5's are robot assembled.
"Best" is a very much open topic for discussion. Radio stations, at least in Europe, stuck to EMT machines. On their request, even Thorens, staunch belt drive fort company, produced a DD deck, very expensive and squarely aimed at the professional market. Others, like Dual and Perpetuum Ebner, also did a lot of worthwhile work.
However, they were literally swamped with Matsushita owned Technics models, a new series every season, with some serious competitions from Denon and JVC (which was their sister company anyway, also owned by Matsushita).
Their 1210 model, which collected like 80% of their laurels, made its name in the pro DJ sector, due to its exceptionally high torque motors enabling almost instant start up. And it was indeed considered an oustanding value for money, a view which I agree with, they were well nigh indestructable and today most of them are still happily working away.
Please bear in mind the regional views. USA was always Japan's prime market, and their popularity in USA accounts for much thanks to the small radio stations which found them to be exactly what the doctor ordered. While also highly regarded in Europe, Technics never achieved the status they had in USA, I imagine in at least part due to strong "local" competition. If memory serves, in the 70ies and 80ies, they had zero local US competition in the normal consumer price range.
Locally, the 1210 rules supreme to this day, and their prices maintain and reflect the perceived value. A-T is usually the prime companion of choice, again with good reason, their only real competitor being Ortofon. A friend owns an old Technics 1210 with a solid A-T cartridge (costing some €160 new locally) and that combo truly does make some very nice sounds
And, for a lot of reasons, I prefer this: http://www.vinylengine.com/images/model/technics_sl-7_top_view.jpg
to that: http://www.musicstack.com/guide-to-.../images/top-10-most-expensive-turntables7.jpg
to that: http://www.musicstack.com/guide-to-.../images/top-10-most-expensive-turntables7.jpg
dvv,
These days everyone is carrying a cell phone so most don't even need a separate watch anyway. At the same time I had a nice Seiko chronograph self winding watch for almost 20 years before it died. I sent it to get fixed, got it back six months later and it wasn't even repaired correctly. I wouldn't mind having a new one, I liked it and know that today it is really a piece of jewelry but it was a mighty nice watch. Today most just seem to buy Apple phones as status symbols, always needing the latest version, that I just don't understand, I couldn't care less about my cell phone.
These days everyone is carrying a cell phone so most don't even need a separate watch anyway. At the same time I had a nice Seiko chronograph self winding watch for almost 20 years before it died. I sent it to get fixed, got it back six months later and it wasn't even repaired correctly. I wouldn't mind having a new one, I liked it and know that today it is really a piece of jewelry but it was a mighty nice watch. Today most just seem to buy Apple phones as status symbols, always needing the latest version, that I just don't understand, I couldn't care less about my cell phone.
There's a reason why Seiko 5 line was called the VW of watches. And a truly outstanding value for money.
But that was before. Today, Seiko's movements tend towards plastics too much for my liking. More or less the same can be said of other movement manufacturers as well.
I am not everyone ! I have a PAYG mobile in the car. Never carry it with me and £5 credit lasts me 12 months.
The Sayco
p) 5's do typically last 15 to 20 yrs with no maintenance or lubing... in fact they are probably not really worth considering for repair and/or service unless its for sentimental reasons. Yes, they are very good although I would hate to draw comparison to anything VW group related (but we'll not go there
). Lets call them the Toyota of the modern mass produced mechanical watch.
Don't know that one, but the SP10s certainly were and are superb. Ditto their straight line trackers, the SL10 and SL15 in particular. Put an EPA tonearm on an SP10-series table and you have something you can keep until the vinyl crumbles to dust.
Note the number of threads and level of interest in SP10-series restoration here.
1200 et al have high reputation for good reason.
OK I have some odd habits. Over the past few years I have trawled forums collecting user posted recordings of 3150Hz test tones used for short term pitch stability verification. I have perhaps a dozen high end and super high end samples, all favourites with high reputations, paired with fine carts and tonearms, also many 1200 variants with more modest arm/cart combos.
Based on this I am confident that a stock 1200 et al, in a fairly modest setup, typically readily matches and beats most high end and super high tables as to pitch stability.
That I readily believe. Tough to beat as stock components IME, when properly set up and matched.dvv said:
This may well be true. But whether that correlates with measurable or audible improvement is a crapshoot IME. For evidence, see the Miller Audio website for comprehensive parametric measurements of dozens of cartridges bracketing mid MM through super MC in price range.
You'll also see ample evidence on Miller Audio that even basic lateral f response of MCs is not necessarily flat, and often artifacts of the cantilever resonance produce an audioband hump. The armature typically has far more inertia in MCs, and even stiff cantilevers often can't shift it ultrasonic, apparently.
My own experience is that fine results can be obtained from either MM or MC cartridges, but as a rule of thumb one might as well save a pile of money and elect MM since there's not much to choose after careful set up and matching. Since this is a DIY forum, one might think the challenge of set up and matching could even be considered an enjoyable part of the chase.......
I have one of those apart on the bench at the moment. Motor wise its the same as the 1210 (and the SP-15 in fact) but lower voltage operation. A replinth and you'd have something topnotch IMO.
My feeling is that in many instances TTs fail to deliver the goods due to cartridge-tonearm mismatch. An otherwise excellent cartridge in a wrong tonearm will not cut it and vice versa, get it just right and be prepared to be surprised.
In the late 70ies, I went on a spree and tested quite a few MM cartridges just to fine the one I liked best. Eventually, it turned out to Ortofon's LM 20 installed in Dual CS 604's low mass tonearm. The best results I ever got from that cartridge was on that Dual and the best results I ever got out of the Dual was with that cartridge. The oly hassle was the fact that Ortofon is adamant about cartridge loading by insisting it should have 400 pF pacaitance with 47k Ohms. The 47k Ohms was not a problem, but since the capacitance at the tip of the RCA cinch connestor from the tonearm wmeasured at 285 pF, I had to add another 120 pF cap in my then current amplification.
These days, it's all been made easy for me, given that my Luxman C-03 premp has two position capacitance selector in the phono RIAA section, one being 100 pF (cap 1) and the other being 150 pF (Cap 2). I disovered that position Cap 1 sounds a little better and at a total of 385 pF is close enough to the recommended value. This gives me the best overall balanced sound. And my small collection of Decca Phase 4 LPs sounds just right.
In the late 70ies, I went on a spree and tested quite a few MM cartridges just to fine the one I liked best. Eventually, it turned out to Ortofon's LM 20 installed in Dual CS 604's low mass tonearm. The best results I ever got from that cartridge was on that Dual and the best results I ever got out of the Dual was with that cartridge. The oly hassle was the fact that Ortofon is adamant about cartridge loading by insisting it should have 400 pF pacaitance with 47k Ohms. The 47k Ohms was not a problem, but since the capacitance at the tip of the RCA cinch connestor from the tonearm wmeasured at 285 pF, I had to add another 120 pF cap in my then current amplification.
These days, it's all been made easy for me, given that my Luxman C-03 premp has two position capacitance selector in the phono RIAA section, one being 100 pF (cap 1) and the other being 150 pF (Cap 2). I disovered that position Cap 1 sounds a little better and at a total of 385 pF is close enough to the recommended value. This gives me the best overall balanced sound. And my small collection of Decca Phase 4 LPs sounds just right.
I stand corrected Stein Music Ltd. | 45468 Mülheim an der Ruhr | Germany | Tonabnehmer | Aventurion 6 at least one outfit still uses boron tubes rather than rods. Only €4500 as well. Bargain. I'll have 3
Yes, cartridge/ tonearm matching is important. If the resonance is strong, it amplifies the distorsions created due mistracking, misalignment and so on.
The tip creates small distorsions, depending on shape, velocity, angles, lenght of cantilver and so on. The angles maybe reach 1 Degree at max. modulation if we assume the record is flat and not excentric. This is not audible as distorsion, it partially defines the *Sound* of the cartridge.
But if the arm/cart resonance is strong and the record is not flat and excentric, this angle gets bigger. If you can see the arm shaking, it is possible that the cantilever hit the armature of an MC.
So the tip will have much more deviation than 1 degree and gives audible flutter and tracking distorsions.
If there is predistorsion with tracing simulators( you rarely now if it is used or not,except it is Dynagroove or Royal Sound written on the LP-Cover), its getting more complex.
And a proper capacitive load of an MM is really important to the frequency response.
Often the tip could track it, but the capacity limits.
MCs can also be loaded with Caps, but with high values , EMT used for the TSD around 330 nF to flaten the resoance of the FineLine.
The tip creates small distorsions, depending on shape, velocity, angles, lenght of cantilver and so on. The angles maybe reach 1 Degree at max. modulation if we assume the record is flat and not excentric. This is not audible as distorsion, it partially defines the *Sound* of the cartridge.
But if the arm/cart resonance is strong and the record is not flat and excentric, this angle gets bigger. If you can see the arm shaking, it is possible that the cantilever hit the armature of an MC.
So the tip will have much more deviation than 1 degree and gives audible flutter and tracking distorsions.
If there is predistorsion with tracing simulators( you rarely now if it is used or not,except it is Dynagroove or Royal Sound written on the LP-Cover), its getting more complex.
And a proper capacitive load of an MM is really important to the frequency response.
Often the tip could track it, but the capacity limits.
MCs can also be loaded with Caps, but with high values , EMT used for the TSD around 330 nF to flaten the resoance of the FineLine.
How did they attached the tip?
Normally they can not drill a hole into the boron tube, so the tip is glued in front of the cantilever, this will add mass of the glue and between diamond and cantilever is glue, which is rarely as stiff as boron....
Well, the density of the glue is less than the one of the diamond, I believe. With such a little thickness and volume of the glue required, I think we don't have to worry about its stiffness, and, at its best, It will dump a little the resonances of the cantilever.
About drilling a hole in a Boron tube, I don't see any impossibility with lasers.
You believe correctly. Diamond s.g. is about 3.5, acrylic glue or cyanoacrylate is 1.0 to 1.1.
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