To your credit Mr. Curl, you seem to believe in the assumption of that device's functionality. Here are some of your relevant posts:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/164631-diy-bybee-quantum-purifiers-27.html#post2151722
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/164631-diy-bybee-quantum-purifiers-30.html#post2152350
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/164631-diy-bybee-quantum-purifiers-34.html#post2152695
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/164631-diy-bybee-quantum-purifiers-35.html#post2152759
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/164631-diy-bybee-quantum-purifiers-37.html#post2153288
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/164631-diy-bybee-quantum-purifiers-37.html#post2153288
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/164631-diy-bybee-quantum-purifiers-43.html#post2153980
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/164631-diy-bybee-quantum-purifiers-43.html#post2153987
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/164631-diy-bybee-quantum-purifiers-46.html#post2154673
The threat -to which I linked to earlier- was from my POV a very good indication of the twisting the meaning of “veracity” can take on some people minds.
Provided you had understood and respected the nature and intent of this diy site, you wouldn’t have been involved in this depressing situation.
SY has summarized all these in one of his earlier posts:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/164631-diy-bybee-quantum-purifiers-48.html#post2154818
George
What I recommend is that the people now here should ignore Bybee Purifiers as an 'add on' to improve their sound system. They are expensive, and most here would probably not appreciate them anyway.
After all, if you cannot believe that there are differences in audio equipment, even if they are designed to the highest quality that was practical at the time, then a Bybee will not change things much.
I use Bybee devices, PERSONALLY, but I do not sell them or receive anything from talking about them.
I only want to see that my friend and colleague, Jack Bybee, gets a fair hearing, and not just condemnation without examination, as I often see him portrayed here. .
After all, if you cannot believe that there are differences in audio equipment, even if they are designed to the highest quality that was practical at the time, then a Bybee will not change things much.
I use Bybee devices, PERSONALLY, but I do not sell them or receive anything from talking about them.
I only want to see that my friend and colleague, Jack Bybee, gets a fair hearing, and not just condemnation without examination, as I often see him portrayed here. .
Actually, we DID examination. Fraud. But hey, enjoy the free lunches and Bentley rides.
Purifiers
I have "heard" the effects of these in the sense that I have listened to music on a friend's elaborate system that has them in the signal chain. Of course I have no idea what things would have sounded like with them NOT in the chain. The guy who got them has spent many years tweaking his system, and it sounds fine to me, although I would play things at slightly higher volumes --- he is inordinately nervous, in my opinion, about arcing over his big Sound Lab panels.
The guy had an early education in the hard sciences but went to grad school and got his PhD in music, and went on to a career as a professor of same. He knows Bybee and clearly believes in the efficacy of the purifiers. As I don't know the man and have a certain skepticism, it would take a lot of work and time to disentangle (pun intended) the state of affairs.
The other day I sent my friend an email about something quite unrelated, and he told me that he'd just gotten a new preamp, the next-to-top-of-line MBL I believe. But ... and here my figurative eyebrows raise a millimeter --- the new preamp was necessitated by something that was going on in the treble with his electrostats after he had rewired the power supply for them. I did not probe what the supposed chain of causality might be here. But he feels the changeout of the preamp worked to put matters right.
I have "heard" the effects of these in the sense that I have listened to music on a friend's elaborate system that has them in the signal chain. Of course I have no idea what things would have sounded like with them NOT in the chain. The guy who got them has spent many years tweaking his system, and it sounds fine to me, although I would play things at slightly higher volumes --- he is inordinately nervous, in my opinion, about arcing over his big Sound Lab panels.
The guy had an early education in the hard sciences but went to grad school and got his PhD in music, and went on to a career as a professor of same. He knows Bybee and clearly believes in the efficacy of the purifiers. As I don't know the man and have a certain skepticism, it would take a lot of work and time to disentangle (pun intended) the state of affairs.
The other day I sent my friend an email about something quite unrelated, and he told me that he'd just gotten a new preamp, the next-to-top-of-line MBL I believe. But ... and here my figurative eyebrows raise a millimeter --- the new preamp was necessitated by something that was going on in the treble with his electrostats after he had rewired the power supply for them. I did not probe what the supposed chain of causality might be here. But he feels the changeout of the preamp worked to put matters right.
Of course. No one should expose a fraud if he's a buddy of yours. He got a fair shake and was found more than wanting.
What SY tested was a 'resistor' but a very special resistor that cannot be purchased from Mouser or any normal vendor. I have seen one of these resistors' opened, and it does not resemble any other resistor that I have ever seen.
The HIGHER CURRENT Bybees that I use, have been opened in Germany and very good pictures we put on the internet. They work on a different principle or at least, in a different way, but the results are similar.
SY did not open up the Bybee to examine its contents. He might have been surprised.
The HIGHER CURRENT Bybees that I use, have been opened in Germany and very good pictures we put on the internet. They work on a different principle or at least, in a different way, but the results are similar.
SY did not open up the Bybee to examine its contents. He might have been surprised.
So, to sum up, John, you have no substantive arguments against the data I presented showing that it measured exactly the same as a cheap 30milliohm resistor bought from Mouser (or Digikey, I forgot which). Your argument appears to be, "Stuart didn't meet Jack. Stuart didn't destructively take apart the device. So don't pay any attention to actual experimental data."
Well, that's certainly convincing.
Well, that's certainly convincing.
I am interested in working mode explanation and hard data performance evidence.
I don’t give a cent over opinions whether a component does anything regardless of it’s price.
A manufacturer has to back-up his claims with data.
Furthermore, when manufacturer says that measurements prove his component functionality, he has to show these measurements (and explain how they were measured).
Otherwise, manufacturer should make no claims.
That’s me.
I don’t mind if Mr. Curl supports his friend under any cost.
I do mind and worry a lot when he introduces new ethics here by supporting or participating in actions which have the purpose of threatening the communication of opinions and expression of reasoning.
I am referring to this post of his (mind the “we” ):
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/164631-diy-bybee-quantum-purifiers-30.html#post2152359
I had to look at the site rules.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/site-announcements/167561-diyaudio-rules.html#post2199797
I quote by underlining what I think that post was violating.
George
I don’t give a cent over opinions whether a component does anything regardless of it’s price.
A manufacturer has to back-up his claims with data.
Furthermore, when manufacturer says that measurements prove his component functionality, he has to show these measurements (and explain how they were measured).
Otherwise, manufacturer should make no claims.
That’s me.
I don’t mind if Mr. Curl supports his friend under any cost.
I do mind and worry a lot when he introduces new ethics here by supporting or participating in actions which have the purpose of threatening the communication of opinions and expression of reasoning.
I am referring to this post of his (mind the “we” ):
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/164631-diy-bybee-quantum-purifiers-30.html#post2152359
I had to look at the site rules.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/site-announcements/167561-diyaudio-rules.html#post2199797
I quote by underlining what I think that post was violating.
I am also asking from the moderators to think of adding to the rules something specific for the case of discussion over manufacturer's unsupported claims.
George
Gpagag, I didn't realize that I was so intimidating. I only speak the truth, as I see it, even under moderation. In fact, it is almost impossible for me to say something 'out of line' so to speak.
However, I did talk to Jack Bybee this morning. He and I laughed at SY's resistor equivalence, but I am willing to forget it, if SY is.
However, I did talk to Jack Bybee this morning. He and I laughed at SY's resistor equivalence, but I am willing to forget it, if SY is.
You know, I am in a bad position to argue about Jack Bybee and his quantum purifiers.
I can talk about my experience with the Bybee devices, the experience with other engineers and reviewers, and the stuff that Jack has been able to tell me, without a problem with outside elements. You can take it or leave it, everyone.
Just don't 'bad mouth' Jack Bybee on this thread, or I will have to 'defend' him, my own experience, and that of people that I respect in the audio business.
I can talk about my experience with the Bybee devices, the experience with other engineers and reviewers, and the stuff that Jack has been able to tell me, without a problem with outside elements. You can take it or leave it, everyone.
Just don't 'bad mouth' Jack Bybee on this thread, or I will have to 'defend' him, my own experience, and that of people that I respect in the audio business.
Yes, a total lack of data can be a disadvantage when trying to make a point.
I will take issue with your wording if you don't mind. What you heard is very likely what you would have heard with them out of the system. I own the pair the SY did his testing on, and my testing, although completely subjective, aka listening tests) showed no discernible difference on any tweeter I tried, and that includes many in number and type. I am not hear to badmouth them but I feel I am the wrong person to have purchased them, not being able to tell if they were in the circuit or not.
Wrong expression.
Wrong impression.
Luck of understanding confirmed.
Cal
You may jump into wrong conclusions.
Maybe this pair you listened to had become incapacitated due to the bad vibes of SY.
I have to congratulate you though for spending your valuable money for testing a hypothesis, for the benefit of the community.
I will symbolically contribute to the loss by donating to the site my pocket money.
George
Thanks George. I think I have some cat in me. I could not resist the curiosity.
I had them first so it was before SY's evil spirit invasion. I used them straight out of the box, then broke them in for 7 days I think it was, with a small amp and a dummy load and did a second listening test. Just to confirm, I have lots 'o' tweeters with which to test. I also did a small amount of testing with larger drivers.
I had them first so it was before SY's evil spirit invasion. I used them straight out of the box, then broke them in for 7 days I think it was, with a small amp and a dummy load and did a second listening test. Just to confirm, I have lots 'o' tweeters with which to test. I also did a small amount of testing with larger drivers.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.