I recently got a good deal on two madison 21" executioner X speakers, and was wondering if any of you had plans for a good speaker housing for this driver. if not, do any of you know of any good literature or perhaps some form of math i could use to figure out housings? i am really anal about both sound reproduction and booming bass at the same time, and i still am unclear whether or not porting hurts certain frequencies to help others and things liek that... i need some serious help! If you people could give me some options and tell me what type of housing is loudest i would apreciate it... thanks
the executioner? well i really don't know much about how these numbers translate to sound, since i really can't afford to hear every speaker on teh market, but i do know, the executioner has an xmax of .75 inches (way more air moved than most big brands,) is rated 1000 watt rms and 2000 max, and has an efficiency of 100 w/db/m or whatever the unit is. it is rated to go from about 25 hz to i think 3000 (?.) and from what i have heard they are pretty strong and don't get damaged easily, unlike most other large drivers. compared to what other numbers i've seen out there for high end subwoofers, this is probably one of the loudest subwoofers there is. if only i had an amp strong enoough to find out... i barely ever see an RMS of 1000, and when i do, it usually has an efficiency of 88 or maybe 90. every 3 units of efficiency translates toa double in sound, right? you can do the math... i saw something called the "b52" (?) that was 750 watt rms and efficiency of aobut 104, i would imagine taht speaker is is louder, but it only goes up to 240 hz... anyway thats how they perform.
PS I shook my whole house running them together at 4 ohms on an amp that can only go up to about 100 watts or less for that type of load
PS I shook my whole house running them together at 4 ohms on an amp that can only go up to about 100 watts or less for that type of load
yea i have a bit of space, in my room theres enough for two big enclosures in front of my bed, but my big issue is fitting it through door, it can't be more than 27 inches wide or there is a good chance i will scratch the doorframe.
PS these things aren't for use in my room, i am djing with them, in assorted sizes of room (i'm mobile)
PS these things aren't for use in my room, i am djing with them, in assorted sizes of room (i'm mobile)
Since the Qts is so high, it's not so easy to design an enclosure to get flat FR. You'll need to use an EQ and a rumble filter if you go ported higher than 20 Hz.
You could go with 27x39x39 ported (deeper bass and 2 dB louder) or sealed (better driver protection).
That will be two huge boxes hehe!
How low and how high do you want to go with them?
I think you should build a basshorn with it.
You could go with 27x39x39 ported (deeper bass and 2 dB louder) or sealed (better driver protection).
That will be two huge boxes hehe!
How low and how high do you want to go with them?
I think you should build a basshorn with it.
argh this program is frustrating, i can't make a spec sheet for my speaker because a group doesn't match (no, spl, rho, c) when i have it calculate thoe numbers for me, the spl changes to 92.71. thats not the 100 they posted on their website! someone please tell me how to figure out whats wrong...
That's because alot of manufacturers are lying about SPL.
It's not 100, it's 93, believe the program hehe!
They got that number by putting the driver in a small box so it's peaking and they measured 100 dB/w/1m, but that's not right because they'll achieve 100 dB only at 70 Hz.
If you use a box big enough, then you'll get around 93 dB/w/1m across the whole range, not just at 70 Hz.
It's not 100, it's 93, believe the program hehe!
They got that number by putting the driver in a small box so it's peaking and they measured 100 dB/w/1m, but that's not right because they'll achieve 100 dB only at 70 Hz.
If you use a box big enough, then you'll get around 93 dB/w/1m across the whole range, not just at 70 Hz.
93 dB efficiency is really good for a subwoofer driver.
You can enter the T/S parameters in WinISD of the other drivers to see if the SPLs match.
As you can see, it's usually better to measure drivers then design the crossover than do it the other way around.
Usually there's more lies for subwoofers than other drivers, what other drivers are you planning to use?
You can enter the T/S parameters in WinISD of the other drivers to see if the SPLs match.
As you can see, it's usually better to measure drivers then design the crossover than do it the other way around.
Usually there's more lies for subwoofers than other drivers, what other drivers are you planning to use?
Not everyone lies. Madison is kind of a "seedy" company - their stuff is made really cheaply. My favorite company for subwoofers is AE Speakers, but they don't make a 21". If you've got your heart set on a 21", then go look at a Precision Devices PD2150. Take a look at a recent thread here on the subwoofers forum, where "Geenius" uses a pair of PD2150 in u-frame dipole baffles. Those are some serious 21-inchers. But anywhere you go to get your 21" woofers, they will be expensive. So I recommend taking a look at a dual-15" configuration.
If this is for home audio or home theater, I recommend taking a look at the AE Speakers AV15 woofers - very musical and clean. John Janowitz's new partner, Deon Bearden, is personal friends with Tom Nousaine, who posts on their forums from time to time. Do a google search.
If this is for home audio or home theater, I recommend taking a look at the AE Speakers AV15 woofers - very musical and clean. John Janowitz's new partner, Deon Bearden, is personal friends with Tom Nousaine, who posts on their forums from time to time. Do a google search.
[Rant-mode]
Probably not, but does deliberately misguiding counts as a lie?
Recalculate the Xmax on the PD, is that a lie? I could calculate sensitivity to be 97 dB/W/m (from n0). Instead let sensitivity be derived from measuring 50-350 Hz (not exactly the frequency band you're using it for, now is it).
[/Rant-mode]
Wkr Johan
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Probably not, but does deliberately misguiding counts as a lie?
Recalculate the Xmax on the PD, is that a lie? I could calculate sensitivity to be 97 dB/W/m (from n0). Instead let sensitivity be derived from measuring 50-350 Hz (not exactly the frequency band you're using it for, now is it).
[/Rant-mode]
Wkr Johan
Not to further exacerbate the situation, but my Madison Executioner x21 actually measured lower than 93db -- mine came in around 89.5db with SpeakerWorkshop. Also, qts was higher (1.2) and fs lower (around 28 if memory serves me). These numbers are pre-breakin, so maybe after they're run in, both fs and qts might go down, but spl should be about the same. Also, the re on both of mine were high -- something like 9.8, I think.
With a qts around 1, I gotta believe open baffle or aperiodic are the only ways to go. There are a couple of guys on AA using these on 3'x4' baffles and say they get to 30hz flat. That's pretty big, so I think I would recommend linkwitz's dipole subwoofer and maybe a 250w and up plate amp.
John
With a qts around 1, I gotta believe open baffle or aperiodic are the only ways to go. There are a couple of guys on AA using these on 3'x4' baffles and say they get to 30hz flat. That's pretty big, so I think I would recommend linkwitz's dipole subwoofer and maybe a 250w and up plate amp.
John
ok i have gotten the specs and played around in winISD. Not only do they seem to have an spl of 93, but they also are looking to be REALLY loud in this bandpass housing i designed. It gets an spl of 108 at around 70 hz, and close to that in surrounding frequencies. It also does pretty well down to around 55, but after taht it tails off, but still does ok at 35, then its just sorta lousy. (so yea i pretty much boosted the bumps and booms of a bassdrum, and got as much rumble as i could squeeze out of these things.) my crossovers are gonna be 4th order crossovers at 25 and 125 hz. 2 108 decibel speakers become 111 db of bass (141 max or something liek that but i don't know what max spl means,) i don't know much about how all these numbers translate, but i assume thats a looot of sound (for a pretty small housing too, 27in x 27in x about the height of between my nipples and neck.)
btw i am gona be using these things to dj techno and dnb and stuff like that, i hope they are enough...
btw i am gona be using these things to dj techno and dnb and stuff like that, i hope they are enough...
ok so maybe this will give you all an idea what its like, so if anyone has feedback, please tell me!
oh yea... as to my midrange... i am going to be building midrange cabinets (as many as necesary) using one 15" woofer rated to go from 40 to 5000 hz with an rms of 250 watts and an spl of 96 and one midrange speaker rated to go from 500 to 15000 hz at 50 watts rms also with an spl of 96 db. I still haven't calculated crossovers yet, but each cabinet will have a passive crossover that will send 5 times as many octaves to the woofer than to the 5" midrange driver. The bass to mid crossover is 125 hz and the upper i will decide on when i find suitable tweeters for my sytem (which, by the way, is 3 way with an active crossover that is 4th order on all crossover points, including its built in 20,000 and 25 hz driver protection filters) The woofers cost 60 dollars a piece, and the midrange costs about 5 dollars a piece (not a ripoff, just a deal.)
Please, however, feel free to take a look at my system as a whole. If i need to build midbass cabinets or i need cabinets for the really really low frequencies, then tell me! pick my plans to pieces, it can only help.
PS if any of you can suggest speakers or anything, then tell me, but usually i only go for ones with large spectrums of sound reproduction and good efficiencies.
thankss
oh yea... as to my midrange... i am going to be building midrange cabinets (as many as necesary) using one 15" woofer rated to go from 40 to 5000 hz with an rms of 250 watts and an spl of 96 and one midrange speaker rated to go from 500 to 15000 hz at 50 watts rms also with an spl of 96 db. I still haven't calculated crossovers yet, but each cabinet will have a passive crossover that will send 5 times as many octaves to the woofer than to the 5" midrange driver. The bass to mid crossover is 125 hz and the upper i will decide on when i find suitable tweeters for my sytem (which, by the way, is 3 way with an active crossover that is 4th order on all crossover points, including its built in 20,000 and 25 hz driver protection filters) The woofers cost 60 dollars a piece, and the midrange costs about 5 dollars a piece (not a ripoff, just a deal.)
Please, however, feel free to take a look at my system as a whole. If i need to build midbass cabinets or i need cabinets for the really really low frequencies, then tell me! pick my plans to pieces, it can only help.
PS if any of you can suggest speakers or anything, then tell me, but usually i only go for ones with large spectrums of sound reproduction and good efficiencies.
thankss
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Precisely the two things that you can't trust when it comes to specs.
The usable frequency ranges from both speakers you mention are probably sucked out someones thumb (as they say in Holland
). The stated sensitivities could be true but are highly suspected to be false as well.The way your simulation looks, you're probably creating a one-note-monster, which can be very impressive in making things rattle or for dB-drags but leaves you on your own when it comes to reproducing music. Most people will favor a more or less flat frequency response over a high SPLmax and most of the times this is the recommended strategy.
Wkr Johan
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