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Old 9th November 2010, 10:28 AM   #201
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It depends on the design. I usually end up with a fairly even balance between Pmax and Xmax within the passband. Although I usually like to stay a bit below Pmax just to be safe with a robust design.
I always put limiters in place any way (remember to put it at both before and after crossover)

If you tune low you will en up with Xmax hitting the wall way early.
If you tune high Pmax will usually be the limiting factor, although most drivers end up having bad frequency response at that point.
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Old 9th November 2010, 01:10 PM   #202
jbell is offline jbell  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaps View Post
Wow, those numbers really put things in perspective!
Now i got to ask, in the SS15, what will be the SPL "limiter"? Will it be power to the driver, XMAX or something else to concider? I think i have read somewhere that PE was a factor in this, but i don't know what that is?
In this design it's all about your high pass filter.... If you run a 40hz high pass filter you are good up through 500 watts, which is the power rating (PE) of the driver.

If you don't have any dsp, you need something like a behringer dcx2496. If you don't have dsp or amp, crown xti amps get you everything you need.

My personal pa these days is a pair of HS12 tops, a pair of SS15 subs, an A&H zed14, and an xti1000 amp. The really great thing about that amp is you have high pass, low pass, crossover, eq, limiter, delay, amp... all in one package. Yea an xti2000 would be a better match, but it's more money. You can get refurb full 3 year no fault warranty xti1000's for $350.. That's the best bargain out there.

With the zed14 and 2 pole speakons, it's literally a single xlr cable in from the mixer, and a single speaker cable out of the amp, daisy chained to both tops and both subs. (channel 1 is tops, channel 2 is subs) It's as simple of a setup as possible.

Regardless, the best settings I've found for the SS15 are 40hz butterworth 48db/oct high pass, 95hz Linkwitz-Riley 24db/oct low pass, with tops set to 95hz 24db/oct Linkwitz-Riley high pass.

Last edited by jbell; 9th November 2010 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 9th November 2010, 07:41 PM   #203
Chaps is offline Chaps  Denmark
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Sounds nice to me, thank you
Now, if I got it right, then it will mean this cab theoreticly will reach 132dB with 500W input (calculated from a sensitivity of 105dB)? If i am right, will this be the RMS SPL or the Peak value?

Have you tried to low-pass them at a higher freq, like 120Hz? And how does it behave that far up?

I have already planned on buying the dcx2496 after reading a lot of greats words about it. I have earlier owned a dbx PA, but as i understand it, the Behringer is actually better when it comes to sound quality and ease of use.

The HS12, is there any info on that box? I guess it your own design too.

Hope you are okay with all my questions, I just find this to be very interesting
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Old 9th November 2010, 08:36 PM   #204
jbell is offline jbell  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaps View Post
Sounds nice to me, thank you
Now, if I got it right, then it will mean this cab theoreticly will reach 132dB with 500W input (calculated from a sensitivity of 105dB)? If i am right, will this be the RMS SPL or the Peak value?

Have you tried to low-pass them at a higher freq, like 120Hz? And how does it behave that far up?

I have already planned on buying the dcx2496 after reading a lot of greats words about it. I have earlier owned a dbx PA, but as i understand it, the Behringer is actually better when it comes to sound quality and ease of use.

The HS12, is there any info on that box? I guess it your own design too.

Hope you are okay with all my questions, I just find this to be very interesting
This design is very well behaved up to 200hz. (unlike many of my other designs.....) There is a sharp dip in response from 170-172hz, but other than that it's good.

I've never run it up to 132, however I've tested sine waves @ 125db at 100watts/1meter, and with music was regularly bumping 129. I personally think power compression would prevent you from getting to 132, but real world, long term sustained 129-130 is very doable. If you need more, build more cabinets.

One thing you may not have gotten from the posts on this is that if you want flat to 40hz, you need to run pairs or more. Single cabinet is a little weak in the 40hz department.

have fun.
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Old 10th November 2010, 01:12 PM   #205
fhperez is offline fhperez  United States
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I just finished my first build of 2 of these boxes and boy do they rock!!! I run a pair with a QSC 2402 Bridged Mono and I have a Driverack PA, and this is probably where I need to set it up correctly. I adjust the volume knob on the 2402 to about 3 O'clock on the dial.... I make sure the Mixer goes up to 0 DB on the output (Pioneer DJM 5000) and They feel and sound great!!!

I tried one out at first with the Amp in Stereo and thought... MM, that's ok I guess... then I flipped the amp to Bridged Mono and plugged in the second box, I adjusted the crossover to 0 DB, pumped up the volume and stood right in front of them... I've never felt any other single or double 15" speaker move air like these...

and the speakers i'm using....

Quote:
Originally Posted by djk View Post
JBL 265H-1 LF Driver, JBL 265H-1 Low Frequency Driver, JBL 265H-1, JBL MRX515M Replacement Driver

Click the image to open in full size.

Fs=39hz
Qts=.32
Qms=3.7
Qes=.35
Vas=170L
Pe=350
Re=5.4
X-max=6.5mm
I wll probably build 2 more boxes and get rid of my Dual 18" Yamaha's....
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Old 10th November 2010, 02:31 PM   #206
fhperez is offline fhperez  United States
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fr_297_size1024.jpg

fr_298_size1024.jpg

Hopefully they aren't too big to post..
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Old 10th November 2010, 03:50 PM   #207
jbell is offline jbell  United States
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fhperez:

first, congrats -- you have good looking cabinets.

I know I just mentioned to chaps that you need to run pairs to get flat to 40hz performance, and your experience with 1 backs that up.

The 3015lf gives a bit more low end, and has another 3mm of xmax vs the driver you chose, but other than that -- good choice in drivers.

What options do you have set in your driverack for high pass and low pass?
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Old 10th November 2010, 04:34 PM   #208
fhperez is offline fhperez  United States
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I did see the Hornresp graphs and saw that the 3015lf was a bit louder throughout the whole 40-100hz range...

I have them set up close to what how you specified...

Driverack is set to 40hz@BS24 @ 0db up to 100hz@LR24 and the mains are at 100hz@LR24

Like I mentioned I will be doing 2 more of these so I will get the 3015's this time and probably end up running 4 3015's in the long run.

These are for DJ application, but since I tend to run some bigger parties at times, I feel I need the extra 2 speakers...

I'm debating on whether I need to put pole holes on them and set up the ev's on top of each one and each pair of subs/mains on each side of me... or run them as I have them pictured and run the EV's wider on their stands... What would you recommend?

If I do put pole, the EV's line up perfeclty flat to the front if I put the pole mount on the front side of the 8x21" board...Do you see any problem with putting the pole hole there? I see that TDA likes to run his subs "Laying on their sides" should I do that? I know it's a matter of preference but what do you suggest? And obviously the options are limitless... I just want to drill the pole mount hole once and be done with it, always run them like that...
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Old 10th November 2010, 04:56 PM   #209
jbell is offline jbell  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fhperez View Post
I did see the Hornresp graphs and saw that the 3015lf was a bit louder throughout the whole 40-100hz range...

I have them set up close to what how you specified...

Driverack is set to 40hz@BS24 @ 0db up to 100hz@LR24 and the mains are at 100hz@LR24

Like I mentioned I will be doing 2 more of these so I will get the 3015's this time and probably end up running 4 3015's in the long run.

These are for DJ application, but since I tend to run some bigger parties at times, I feel I need the extra 2 speakers...

I'm debating on whether I need to put pole holes on them and set up the ev's on top of each one and each pair of subs/mains on each side of me... or run them as I have them pictured and run the EV's wider on their stands... What would you recommend?

If I do put pole, the EV's line up perfeclty flat to the front if I put the pole mount on the front side of the 8x21" board...Do you see any problem with putting the pole hole there? I see that TDA likes to run his subs "Laying on their sides" should I do that? I know it's a matter of preference but what do you suggest? And obviously the options are limitless... I just want to drill the pole mount hole once and be done with it, always run them like that...
Well... not sure I can advise you on this one... but here's some info.

1. These things are directional, you have to be careful where you point them, and they have a different pattern on their sides vs standing up. (they actually have a wider pattern on their sides, which is how I typically run them)

2. 'typically' subs are omnidirectional, and not directional -- splitting subs is a big no-no and having them on each side under the tops causes cancellations, etc.... TH's aren't typical in this respect, so those rules don't exactly apply.

3. I see no issue on having a pair of subs per side with a top on a pole, assuming it works with your room, etc... I've run my subs centered in front of a stage with tops spread wide and angled in and been very happy. I've also set up in a corner, centered subs with tops close and angled out and been happy. Outdoors I've set subs upright and set tops over subs on each side and been happy. I think various rooms will work better one way vs the other -- give yourself flexibility, one setup doesn't always work well everywhere.

4. I try and put pole mounts, handles, etc... where there is more than just a 1/2" of ply to connect to. (like connecting to one of the interior panels) I don't see an issue with the location you propose.
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Old 10th November 2010, 05:26 PM   #210
fhperez is offline fhperez  United States
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Thanks, that info helps out...

I am ordering the 2 speakers and mounting Hardware as we speak...

Do you know of a 'local' place that sells Duratex?
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