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Old 23rd September 2010, 11:58 AM   #171
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Location: Missouri - USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by martinsson View Post
There is a "MKII" of my THAM15 (aka andershorn) in the works, the modifications is based around four 45deg. refelctors positioned in the horn path, one of wich also acts as a chamfer at the mouth increasing S4 by a factor of approx 1.2 and slightly increasing L34.

These changes are along the lines of what William and I once talked about some time ago but i did not act on it, but now a friend of mine here in Sweden has offered to try this mods out and compare them to the original design in an atempt to improve the design.

Hopefully these changes will result in a slightly higher over all effeciency and supression of the 180Hz dip, but this remains to be seen.
I look forward to the results.
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Old 23rd September 2010, 12:26 PM   #172
jbell is offline jbell  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinsson View Post
There is a "MKII" of my THAM15 (aka andershorn) in the works, the modifications is based around four 45deg. refelctors positioned in the horn path, one of wich also acts as a chamfer at the mouth increasing S4 by a factor of approx 1.2 and slightly increasing L34.

These changes are along the lines of what William and I once talked about some time ago but i did not act on it, but now a friend of mine here in Sweden has offered to try this mods out and compare them to the original design in an atempt to improve the design.

Hopefully these changes will result in a slightly higher over all effeciency and supression of the 180Hz dip, but this remains to be seen.
When I built my big heavy cabinet that has a similar path... The reflectors that made the most difference was about a 15 degree reflector in the back/bottom, and a 45 degree in the back/top. Everything else was a net minus. Solid braces in the horn path are a net minus. The mouth angle increasing S4 should increase 100hz at the expense of 40hz as well as minimize the dip. Adding about a 2:1 compression plate to the driver baffle is also a plus.
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Old 23rd September 2010, 03:01 PM   #173
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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Hi,
I can't take advantage either. They can't ship to UK.

I would like four of these.

Is there a Member willing to buy and then ship to me? Obviously I will pay up front once we know the surface freight cost to the UK.
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Originally Posted by GM View Post
Indeed! ~$100 delivered to my door. Wish I could take advantage of it.
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Old 23rd September 2010, 03:19 PM   #174
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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I can't find it for $100 ---$269 seems almost retail for a LAB15 - Pricepro price at Amazon
List Price: $289.99
Price: $209.36 + $15.35 shipping
You Save: $80.63 (28%)

Last edited by freddi; 23rd September 2010 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 23rd September 2010, 05:15 PM   #175
GM is offline GM  United States
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It was apparently a one day deal. Snooze, you lose these days. On talk radio yesterday, they were 'revealing' that for Christmas specials there would be some major retail chains taking advantage of all the cheap, available retail space to open stores for only a few days or until sales dropped to some predetermined point and/or stock ran out to try and loosen up Wal-Mart's 'strangle hold' on the season.

GM
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Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.
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Old 25th September 2010, 03:22 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbell View Post
Yea... I built several things that start with the Letter 'T'

-13db at 40hz vs 100hz is the perfect recipe to roast hot dogs to perfection.....

You will have to 'unlearn' what you know about sub placement with these. If you are going to 'corner load' them, that means putting them in a corner facing OUT. They work very well in front of a stage on their sides, in a line. (their coverage pattern is different on side vs standing up.) Makes a good place for monitors as well.
ON their side they seem to have a wider dispersion and are not so accurately aimed. If they have to be on each side of a stage, you should be able to see the back of magnets from the center of the dance floor or crowd area. This will give you some center fill. If you want precise aiming to a central point set them mouth down. You have to rethink placement.
As far as a shootout, the TH against a direct radiator will drop a pro guys jaw. Th's don't "sound" loud like 18's do because they stay clean. When you run a DB meter you get a big surprise seeing how loud your system really is!
Most people perceive loud as distortion and don't realize how loud a clean system really is.

Sorry I've been away... we need to get out of here, Colorado here we come!
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Old 27th September 2010, 02:29 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by screamersusa View Post
As far as a shootout, the TH against a direct radiator will drop a pro guys jaw. Th's don't "sound" loud like 18's do because they stay clean. When you run a DB meter you get a big surprise seeing how loud your system really is!
I've been quoted, "A vented box is a vented box..." that is to say your not going to avoid physics...
Still you're claim that vented boxes are terribly non linear is not true. Many are but listen to a self powered Meyer sub sometimes... or the cheaper L-ACOUSTICS SB218.

Do you think that your tapped horn will best a 700hp by Meyer Sound in terms of low extension, and max SPL for a given volume?... (@ a Set % of distortion)?
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Old 27th September 2010, 03:30 PM   #178
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Hell on wheels...

First off, I am a HUGE Meyer Fan, more than most people realize.
A single 18 meyer self powered against a single 15 TH with the same amount of power at 8 Ohms: The meyer will run out of xmax first...period.
The perception of loud however is a different story as the 18 will compress and breakup way before the 15 TH resulting in higher frequency harmonics and distortions making it "sound louder" even though the TH is busy rearranging your heart rate. This is real world experience.
Now to compare a Meyer 650 powered sub (double 18") with 1240watts divided as 620w per internal amp at 8 ohms to a single TH15 with 450 watts and yeah the Meyer will win, but the TH will give it one hell of a challenge with 1/3rd the power and less than half the cone area. Outdoors however the TH just might win due to the acoustical impedance.
Most of the boxes in this thread are designed for maximum spl with limited power for small systems handled by one or two people. Anyone with deep pockets can go buy a 24foot box truck full of Meyer gear and kick anyone's butt, but good luck getting enough gigs to pay for it these days.

These are different tools for different uses. If you want the best and want to do large 10-15 thousand dollar shows, get Meyers or Danleys. That also means you belong in the pro sound forum not DIY. If you want to sound as good as a Huge concert system, in a small venue, for under $1000.00 per show, band and lights included, you have to build something like the TH's weve come up with here. It's a little like comparing an F350 to a Kenworth, do you need to tow a 40 foot trailer every day or not, and can you justify the cost?

P.S. I got your message a few days ago as I've been away.

Last edited by screamersusa; 27th September 2010 at 03:36 PM.
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Old 27th September 2010, 03:47 PM   #179
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
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If you want a comparison of efficiency between vented and horn loaded, then read Danley's Labhorn paper.
He compares an ideal vented system to his Labhorn system.
In terms of weight and volume and power input and cost of speakers and cost of amplifiers (running cost and capital cost) the horn beats the vented sometimes by as much as a factor of ten.

The TH comes close to a Labhorn in some of those specifications over a restricted bandwidth. The ideal Vented cannot get close.

Finally, as the system volume (cubic metres or cubic feet) becomes smaller the TH performance starts to approach being the best of the three types.
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Last edited by AndrewT; 27th September 2010 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 27th September 2010, 04:01 PM   #180
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So far the one time my system was seriously "bested in a small club" was as follows:

6 fury subs 2000watts total
8 modded ot12 biamped 2400 watts total
4 15" two watt horn loaded side fill monitors, 3 single 15 2way floor monitors, one double 15 for drum monitors.

against

6 Eaw KF650s and 6 Eaw 650 subs (double 18).
Estimated power about 50,000 watts through TWO 4 foot EAW supplied racks.
Ironically they had a Behringer board and only two...yes two 12" eaw floor monitors they crammed 6 keyboards, electric drums, bass and guitar through along with vocals.
It was so loud and horrible everyone left holding their ears despite paper towels and toilet paper getting shoved in them. And this crowd loves loud!.

"Better" depends on the situation. That was like a nuclear bomb when only a couple sticks of dynamite was needed.
Frankly I have been told that some of the DIY pa systems including mine, are far better sounding than commercial ones in certain venues.
If someone wants to bring in their own top of the line system, I gladly let them. If they want to bring in a guitar center PA.......the answer is NO.

By the way... The guys with the EAW system broke their board during the first set, wound up using my modded yamaha at the club owners request, and promptly packed MY board in THEIR truck at the end of the night. I never got it back. It cost me an entire season of work because I didn't have that board which was listed on the riders in my contract.
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