First I would like to thank everyone here for all the the information that has been posted on this forum especially regarding subwoofers. I have spent quite a few hours going through various threads (avsforum, audiokarma, hometheatershack, speakerplans, diyaudio and the likes), making sure that I was doing my homework, before asking questions regarding my first DIY project.
So here it is: this is for a second system in a fairly small bedroom (17x10x8) in which i currently use a titanic 10'' mk3 subwoofer. I am 75% music /25% movies (in 2-channel). I listen to various types of music but more than often it has bass heavy material. Although i still consider that the titanic is not a bad sub, i am looking for slightly more extension, more output and better overall SQ so that it nicely integrates with my single-driver speakers.
At first I was considering various options, but I am now quite intrigued by tapped horns and even FLH subwoofers which I have never heard in a home environment.
So what am I after? approximately 25-30hz to 80-90hz, around 115db max spl capable (in room), low cost, relatively small size. I would also prefer not to have to use multiples and start with just one subwoofer (and only add a second one if absolutely needed). What I am considering at the moment? Lilmike's design around the anarchy driver is veryyy nice (but at least 2 is needed), volvotreter's 30hz tapped horn (2 would also be needed i think), FlipC's th-mini clone (need a bit more extension), Jbell's dual tuba-18 with inductor (because tabletuba is too big to be corner loaded in my smallish room, but again the dual t-18 doesn't go below 40hz)
Don't people say audio is all about compromises?
I kinda like that design from Tsloms with the MCM driver as it seems to be very hard to beat for the money and has the dimensions I am looking for, but a lot of people seem to say that this driver is much better suited for FLH. It would be nice to have measurements in 2pi to prove otherwise, but even then I must admit that i'm having a little bit of trouble with the sketchup. Nevertheless for the price it seems like a real bargain and it would be very tempting to give it a try.
Do you guys think I should learn how to play with hornresponse and try a simulation for a 28hz tapped horn using the tang band w8-740 driver and then try to double fold it? I'm a total newbe to DIY and I would rather try to copy an existing design for my first project... but if I have to i will!! so anybody can help? i think maxmercy said something about a tapped horn around the W8-740...
thanks for your help
david
So here it is: this is for a second system in a fairly small bedroom (17x10x8) in which i currently use a titanic 10'' mk3 subwoofer. I am 75% music /25% movies (in 2-channel). I listen to various types of music but more than often it has bass heavy material. Although i still consider that the titanic is not a bad sub, i am looking for slightly more extension, more output and better overall SQ so that it nicely integrates with my single-driver speakers.
At first I was considering various options, but I am now quite intrigued by tapped horns and even FLH subwoofers which I have never heard in a home environment.
So what am I after? approximately 25-30hz to 80-90hz, around 115db max spl capable (in room), low cost, relatively small size. I would also prefer not to have to use multiples and start with just one subwoofer (and only add a second one if absolutely needed). What I am considering at the moment? Lilmike's design around the anarchy driver is veryyy nice (but at least 2 is needed), volvotreter's 30hz tapped horn (2 would also be needed i think), FlipC's th-mini clone (need a bit more extension), Jbell's dual tuba-18 with inductor (because tabletuba is too big to be corner loaded in my smallish room, but again the dual t-18 doesn't go below 40hz)
Don't people say audio is all about compromises?
I kinda like that design from Tsloms with the MCM driver as it seems to be very hard to beat for the money and has the dimensions I am looking for, but a lot of people seem to say that this driver is much better suited for FLH. It would be nice to have measurements in 2pi to prove otherwise, but even then I must admit that i'm having a little bit of trouble with the sketchup. Nevertheless for the price it seems like a real bargain and it would be very tempting to give it a try.
Do you guys think I should learn how to play with hornresponse and try a simulation for a 28hz tapped horn using the tang band w8-740 driver and then try to double fold it? I'm a total newbe to DIY and I would rather try to copy an existing design for my first project... but if I have to i will!!
so anybody can help? i think maxmercy said something about a tapped horn around the W8-740...thanks for your help
david
I would say around 8.5'' by 9''...?
For now the titanic subwoofer is along the front wall almost centered in between the main speakers but if dimensions allow me i would move the tapped horn around a bit... possibly the front right corner if it can be similar in size to tsloms' tapped horn (30x35x9.5)
For now the titanic subwoofer is along the front wall almost centered in between the main speakers but if dimensions allow me i would move the tapped horn around a bit... possibly the front right corner if it can be similar in size to tsloms' tapped horn (30x35x9.5)
if ur the same guy... ???
But you mean 8.5 FEET x 9 FEET?? not inches...
an 8.5" mouth is a high midrange horn...
Maybe we are talking about a vent size of a 1/4 wave type speaker, not a horn?? Sorry but I don't know what all the configurations are that you mentioned, so I might be on the wrong page...
_-_-bear
But you mean 8.5 FEET x 9 FEET?? not inches...
an 8.5" mouth is a high midrange horn...
Maybe we are talking about a vent size of a 1/4 wave type speaker, not a horn?? Sorry but I don't know what all the configurations are that you mentioned, so I might be on the wrong page...
_-_-bear
A TH design for corner loading can have just such a tiny mouth.
250cm mouth is about 7" x 5.6"
Net system volume for the above is about 46L (gross could probably be around 65L). Maximum output looks to be about 118dB at 30hz with 20V input (100W/4R), and does not exceed x-max. Adding an inductor in the 4mH~5mH range makes it pretty much ±2dB from 30hz~90hz.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-832
250cm mouth is about 7" x 5.6"
Net system volume for the above is about 46L (gross could probably be around 65L). Maximum output looks to be about 118dB at 30hz with 20V input (100W/4R), and does not exceed x-max. Adding an inductor in the 4mH~5mH range makes it pretty much ±2dB from 30hz~90hz.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-832
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..So what am I after? approximately 25-30hz to 80-90hz, around 115db max spl capable (in room), low cost, relatively small size..
david
Hi david,
If the TB- W8-740 is to be used at about 105 dB average SPL ( 10 dB headroom),I would choose an easy folded stuffed T-TQWP: No in-band Gldy ripple and much lower FR ripple above 80 Hz that a TH version would produce, IMO = superior SQ is secured: See the picture.
b
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djk this looks pretty impressive on paper especially for such a small system volume. Depending on the folding this could be small enough to fit in a corner in my room. What would it look like in 2.0 pi environment just so i can compare to other designs?
Bjorno I'm not too too familiar with T-TQWP but I assume that would be a relatively easy build? What are the main advantages over tapped horns? Also what dimensions would I be looking at? they seem fairly small which is a good thing...
thanks
Bjorno I'm not too too familiar with T-TQWP but I assume that would be a relatively easy build? What are the main advantages over tapped horns? Also what dimensions would I be looking at? they seem fairly small which is a good thing...
thanks
"What would it look like in 2.0 pi environment just so i can compare to other designs?"
Subtract 6dB at 30hz for 1Pi, 12dB at 30hz for 2Pi.
The smoothest response seems to be with about 6.5mH added in series with the driver.
The design for the TB W8-740 in post #6 has virtually the same response, but is about 6dB less efficient than the TB W6-1139SI design (but the TB W8-740 design is about half the size too).
http://www.volvotreter.de/th.htm
Short vs tall:
Subtract 6dB at 30hz for 1Pi, 12dB at 30hz for 2Pi.
The smoothest response seems to be with about 6.5mH added in series with the driver.
The design for the TB W8-740 in post #6 has virtually the same response, but is about 6dB less efficient than the TB W6-1139SI design (but the TB W8-740 design is about half the size too).
http://www.volvotreter.de/th.htm
Short vs tall:
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Bjorno, I'm really curious about that T-TQWP. But, those thumbnails are a little small for me to see what is going on. Could you post bigger images?
Paul
Wild Burro Audio Labs - DIY Full Range Speakers
Paul
Wild Burro Audio Labs - DIY Full Range Speakers
Duh. Sorry about that. I'm still trying to decide what to do with my pair of W8-740Cs. I know the TH-SPUD clone is the safest option, but I'm just not crazy about the shape and volume. I'm looking for something (or somethings) that takes up less floor space.
Paul
Wild Burro Audio Labs - DIY Full Range Speakers
Paul
Wild Burro Audio Labs - DIY Full Range Speakers
I found the T-TQWP design interesting when I first saw it as well - thanks for bumping the thread since I had forgotten about it.
bjorno (or anyone else with experience with these) is this really a practical design? the cross-section is basically a square tube 3.5 inches per side - is this viable with a fairly beefy 8" driver? I'm not even sure how you'd construct such a thing, and would think at the very least that a front chamber/rear chamber might have to be modeled.
Also, would a T-TQWP be stuffed, or just lined like a conventional TH?
Is it a coincidence that the F3 is very close to Fs for the driver? Most TH designs are ~0.5 octaves down from Fs.
Definitely a very interesting design if it can be made to work.
bjorno (or anyone else with experience with these) is this really a practical design? the cross-section is basically a square tube 3.5 inches per side - is this viable with a fairly beefy 8" driver? I'm not even sure how you'd construct such a thing, and would think at the very least that a front chamber/rear chamber might have to be modeled.
Also, would a T-TQWP be stuffed, or just lined like a conventional TH?
Is it a coincidence that the F3 is very close to Fs for the driver? Most TH designs are ~0.5 octaves down from Fs.
Definitely a very interesting design if it can be made to work.
More design ideas, 114 dB free space max output to 31
Here is a 10 inch driven 250 watt design that I've been modifying (adjusted from a 40 Hz TH pipe to a 31 Hz one) that should do 114-115 from 31-90 +-2 dB with no added inductors. The driver is 50 bucks free shipping see Alpine Type-E Subwoofer SWE-10S4*| Creative Car Audio
see this forum thread for the original design (I am basically stretching it wider and taller to make the hornresp numbers correct). Should be roughly 3.5 cu. ft standing on end with a foot print of roughly 14x14inches. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/259509-new-sub-design-constricted-transflex-simple-build-series-tuned-6th-order-3.html
Here is a 10 inch driven 250 watt design that I've been modifying (adjusted from a 40 Hz TH pipe to a 31 Hz one) that should do 114-115 from 31-90 +-2 dB with no added inductors. The driver is 50 bucks free shipping see Alpine Type-E Subwoofer SWE-10S4*| Creative Car Audio
see this forum thread for the original design (I am basically stretching it wider and taller to make the hornresp numbers correct). Should be roughly 3.5 cu. ft standing on end with a foot print of roughly 14x14inches. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/259509-new-sub-design-constricted-transflex-simple-build-series-tuned-6th-order-3.html
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