I've noticed a quite few people seem to be having all sorts of problems using WinISD when trying to design speaker cabs. So i thought i'd explain how i do it.
Enter the Thiele Small parameters from the drivers data sheet in the order you see in my screenie.
A = Qes
B = Qms
C = Fs
D = Re
E = Vas
F = Pe
G = Xmax
H = BL
Pay VERY close attention to the terminology, as there are multiple choices available to choose from in WinISD. This is because not all manufactures list them identically. One incorrect entry and your design will we way off, and will NOT work as you hoped.
For example - Vas might be listed as 9.288 cubic feet, which is the same as 263.00 Liters in my screenie. If you carefully click on the appropriate position, in this case L as shown by the red arrow, you are able to change it to match what your data sheet shows.
Also notice how the text in the white entry boxes are coloured. Green, Blue and Black.
Green = Manually entered data
Blue = Automatically calculated
Black = No data
If you Carefully follow the above advice, then you should be now be able to design boxes more confidently and accurately. I've been using WinISD for many years this way, with great success both commercially and privately.
Happy building and listening,
Regards
Zero D
Enter the Thiele Small parameters from the drivers data sheet in the order you see in my screenie.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
A = Qes
B = Qms
C = Fs
D = Re
E = Vas
F = Pe
G = Xmax
H = BL
Pay VERY close attention to the terminology, as there are multiple choices available to choose from in WinISD. This is because not all manufactures list them identically. One incorrect entry and your design will we way off, and will NOT work as you hoped.
For example - Vas might be listed as 9.288 cubic feet, which is the same as 263.00 Liters in my screenie. If you carefully click on the appropriate position, in this case L as shown by the red arrow, you are able to change it to match what your data sheet shows.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Also notice how the text in the white entry boxes are coloured. Green, Blue and Black.
Green = Manually entered data
Blue = Automatically calculated
Black = No data
If you Carefully follow the above advice, then you should be now be able to design boxes more confidently and accurately. I've been using WinISD for many years this way, with great success both commercially and privately.
Happy building and listening,
Regards
Zero D
The best way to enter the data into the driver editor is to follow the directions from the Help menu. From the top menu bar go to "help", "contents", "using WinISD pro", "entering new driver data". Step-by-step instructions there.
col.
col.
Thanks for the effort! FYI, a tutorial here with some files folks can download as well as share yours. Some other good stuff too: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers/
GM
GM
collo
Hi, unfortunately even with the helpfile included in WinISD, a lot of people still struggle with it, and some even give up trying. As there are many different possible permutations of entering the required data, and also different terminology used by companies, i thought it would be useful/helpful to show precisely how to accomplish a working design, for those that didn't already know.
By the way, thanks for your www and your very useful tools.
GM
Thanks for the kind words, and the link.
Hi, unfortunately even with the helpfile included in WinISD, a lot of people still struggle with it, and some even give up trying. As there are many different possible permutations of entering the required data, and also different terminology used by companies, i thought it would be useful/helpful to show precisely how to accomplish a working design, for those that didn't already know.
By the way, thanks for your www and your very useful tools.
GM
Thanks for the kind words, and the link.
Hi Zero, very useful for beginners; just one question, I usually enter Sd and let WINISD calculate BL, can you see a problem with doing it this way?
I find it's best to use the most reliable parameters and enter them according to the instructions in the program. Things like RE, BL, SD, MMS...Parameters like FS, VAS etc. often vary quite a bit more between drivers. I don't worry about getting the parameters exactly like the manufacturer's specs. Small variations in a parameter or 2 like the qts, vas, fs, don't really affect the modeling appreciably. I'm talking about small differences like the VAS being 224L instead of 231L or the FS being 22.6hz instead of 23hz or the qts being 0.411 instead of 0.415. The real world driver variation from the manufacturer's median specs are usually much bigger than this.
ZeroD, I think you are confusing me with user Col, who posted earlier. Still appreciate the thanks though.
I have a WinISD tips page that lists the following advice from one of the authors of WinISD....
Enter Qms, Re, Mms, Cms, Bl, Sd, hg, hc, Xlim (if available) and Pe.
Let the program auto-calculate the rest and don't change any of 'em.
This seems to work pretty well.
I have a WinISD tips page that lists the following advice from one of the authors of WinISD....
Enter Qms, Re, Mms, Cms, Bl, Sd, hg, hc, Xlim (if available) and Pe.
Let the program auto-calculate the rest and don't change any of 'em.
This seems to work pretty well.
Hi all.
PeteMcK
Entering Sd and let WinISD calculate BL is fine, as there many ways to achieve the same results when entering the required data. I could have given multiple of examples of entering the values in different ways, but that would only have confused some people. So i had to choose one way to explain, which i know definately works.
Josh Ricci
Small amounts as you suggest, i agree won't make a lot of difference.
Collo
Ahh, you're not Col then. I saw the Oz flag and together with Col i presumed it was you lol. Anyway, nice to see you on here.
Col
As you can see i now know who's who, sorry for the confusion with the names.
PeteMcK
Entering Sd and let WinISD calculate BL is fine, as there many ways to achieve the same results when entering the required data. I could have given multiple of examples of entering the values in different ways, but that would only have confused some people. So i had to choose one way to explain, which i know definately works.
Josh Ricci
Small amounts as you suggest, i agree won't make a lot of difference.
Collo
Ahh, you're not Col then. I saw the Oz flag and together with Col i presumed it was you lol. Anyway, nice to see you on here.
Col
As you can see i now know who's who, sorry for the confusion with the names.
Although he didn't go into detail; Jack Hidley (someone who knows a thing or two about speaker design) posted on AVS that in the first few minutes of trying to use WinISD he noticed there were math errors in the program.
It might be a good idea to get this clarified since tutorials, tips and FAQs are rather pointless if the program itself is flawed.
It might be a good idea to get this clarified since tutorials, tips and FAQs are rather pointless if the program itself is flawed.
This is an older thread but I d/led winisd pro .50 alpha from Softpedia. I previously had another winISD prog on here.
I have the driver params put in for one not on the list file name 'roland' (small 'r'). My goal is to get a port diameter and depth.
This has been impossible. And yes I have read the directions and even some additional how tos.
Is there any step by step instruction for Winisd freeware that is complete with screen shots?
This means not skipping anything and using something other than the canned help file which only uses drivers that are on the list.
Maybe the T/S prams for this old Roland are out of range. Here they are:
[quoting a previous note]
Zene posted these specs back then, so OB or leaky box are the obvious choices:
Roland 8" is/are: (Used Peak Inst. for test, only broke-in 12 hrs.)
Paper cone
Fs = 78.76 hz
Vas = 24.5 L/0.8652 cu ft
Re = 7.309
Le = .2462 mh
Qms = 5.772
Qes = 1.977
Qts = 1.473
Sd = 21.4 sq cm/3.317 sq in
BL = 0.4477 N/A (calc'd)
Spl 89.65 1w/1m
Pe = 30W
GM
ref:
Some research is needed (Page 1) / FullRangeDriver Forum / Fullrangedriver Forum
[end quote]
I have the driver params put in for one not on the list file name 'roland' (small 'r'). My goal is to get a port diameter and depth.
This has been impossible. And yes I have read the directions and even some additional how tos.
Is there any step by step instruction for Winisd freeware that is complete with screen shots?
This means not skipping anything and using something other than the canned help file which only uses drivers that are on the list.
Maybe the T/S prams for this old Roland are out of range. Here they are:
[quoting a previous note]
Zene posted these specs back then, so OB or leaky box are the obvious choices:
Roland 8" is/are: (Used Peak Inst. for test, only broke-in 12 hrs.)
Paper cone
Fs = 78.76 hz
Vas = 24.5 L/0.8652 cu ft
Re = 7.309
Le = .2462 mh
Qms = 5.772
Qes = 1.977
Qts = 1.473
Sd = 21.4 sq cm/3.317 sq in
BL = 0.4477 N/A (calc'd)
Spl 89.65 1w/1m
Pe = 30W
GM
ref:
Some research is needed (Page 1) / FullRangeDriver Forum / Fullrangedriver Forum
[end quote]
Everything you need to know is in the HELP file, but this tutorial lays it out a bit better: WinISD Pro Tutorial and Download (A detailed guide on how to use WinISD Pro) - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
The program can reconcile even major discrepancies I've encountered with some manufacturer's published 'wishful dreams'. Actually, this driver only has a few off by fractions compared to its math derived 'ideal', i.e. it was accurately measured.
GM
The program can reconcile even major discrepancies I've encountered with some manufacturer's published 'wishful dreams'. Actually, this driver only has a few off by fractions compared to its math derived 'ideal', i.e. it was accurately measured.
GM
YouTube - WinISD-entering-parameters.avi
Here is a link to a you tube about entering the data. The sidebar shows some other box design vids. using other programs.
I will give it another whirl. But I may be just having a three into two won't go problem. The old Roland belongs in an OB. I've been told that repeatedly and I think that finally I will give that a shot. Once done I can re-cut the OB for a Karlson. My move to Karlson is to get the box size down from floor standers. Plus the K's look interesting. I have one made but not tuned.
So, once you know the optimal volume of the unit (sealed box), how do you determine the optimal dimensions?
optimal dimensions are where standing waves occur at different freqvencys.
Suposedly one can just use 3rd root of 2 as the ratio of sides.
if A dimension is 1, then B should be 1,26 , C should be 1,59 or so.
But actualy for subs the ratios do not mather that mutch, standing waves will be formed at out of band freqvency for the sub.
Suposedly one can just use 3rd root of 2 as the ratio of sides.
if A dimension is 1, then B should be 1,26 , C should be 1,59 or so.
But actualy for subs the ratios do not mather that mutch, standing waves will be formed at out of band freqvency for the sub.
My woofer can go from 30 something to 3000Hz, I want to let it handle 30 to 2000 untill I get midrange drivers.... would the dimensions become more critical?
Well, the smallest cab would be an OB, but I prefer the extra control of some form of TL for high Qt drivers. Which version of Karlson will such a high Q driver work in?
GM
Correct, think of the cab as a very small room with all the same modes as a large one, just beginning higher in frequency.
GM
WinISD without tears
Nice to see people making use of the thread 🙂
I wish i'd called it "WinISD without tears" or something similar, instead of "How to correctly use WinISD"
I realise there are more ways than mine to successfully use WinISD, but so many people seem to have, or have had problems entering the parameters correctly, and therefore making errors & getting frustrated etc, i felt that by making this thread with lots of clear screeshots etc, would enable them to spend more time designing, and more quickly, with a sure fire way that works and gets results 🙂
Nice to see people making use of the thread 🙂
I wish i'd called it "WinISD without tears" or something similar, instead of "How to correctly use WinISD"
I realise there are more ways than mine to successfully use WinISD, but so many people seem to have, or have had problems entering the parameters correctly, and therefore making errors & getting frustrated etc, i felt that by making this thread with lots of clear screeshots etc, would enable them to spend more time designing, and more quickly, with a sure fire way that works and gets results 🙂
There is no help file in Winisd (or atleast the version i have), it just says "MS html help is not installed on the computer". What does this mean? I thought the program came with its own help file¬!