Hi Guys
Zobsky
The power input is 70 watts in the pic posted.
brsanko
I like a bit of competition. It's why we post things right?
Here is my input screen:
What is different is I did my simulation in a wall floor environment.
I accounted for the actual 4 ohm load and lowered the input voltage to adjust for that to 2.00 volts.
If I do the same simulation in a car environment I get this:
Are you still happy?
Mark
Zobsky
The power input is 70 watts in the pic posted.
brsanko
I like a bit of competition. It's why we post things right?
Here is my input screen:
What is different is I did my simulation in a wall floor environment.
I accounted for the actual 4 ohm load and lowered the input voltage to adjust for that to 2.00 volts.
If I do the same simulation in a car environment I get this:
Are you still happy?
Mark
Well mine is a whole lot smaller. Why on earth do you have the ang set to 2.0 pi are you planning on putting it in the middle of a large room?
Oh I see you have 2 drivers in yours. When you can hit 125db with one is 2 really necessary. I mean you can only blow your eardrums once.
Maybe I will check out your design a little more carefully!
You pulled this off with one driver!
This I have to check out more carefully.
Mark
You pulled this off with one driver!
This I have to check out more carefully.
Mark
I told you, your designs were not yet mature... But I was too busy to demonstrate it (I'm finishing a class D sub amplifier for the pro audio market capable of several kw at 4 and 2 ohms, extremely time consuming).
One BRain plus my Half a brain = one brain?
Hello BRSANKO
I did play with your work. I fooled around a bit. Added a driver tweeked the works and added a couple of litres. Now we are good down to 18hz!
This is probably what is going to get built unless you or we can better it.
So 116 liters and another driver drops us an octave and gets us a couple of extra db. I whole heartedly agree that this is not needed for a car but this box could also work in a house.
The TRIO8 has a linear X-max of 14mm and a mechanical of 19mm so I don't think that it would be dieing at these levels.
Mark
Hello BRSANKO
I did play with your work. I fooled around a bit. Added a driver tweeked the works and added a couple of litres. Now we are good down to 18hz!
This is probably what is going to get built unless you or we can better it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
So 116 liters and another driver drops us an octave and gets us a couple of extra db. I whole heartedly agree that this is not needed for a car but this box could also work in a house.
The TRIO8 has a linear X-max of 14mm and a mechanical of 19mm so I don't think that it would be dieing at these levels.
Mark
Calling JLH come in JLH
I compaed this design to the one you posted a while back with the two Tang Band 8" drivers. They are less efficient and actually have a smaller Sd. But the box models well. Did you ever do a one watt SPL measurement on the box?
This one seems close and is almost half the size.
Mark
I compaed this design to the one you posted a while back with the two Tang Band 8" drivers. They are less efficient and actually have a smaller Sd. But the box models well. Did you ever do a one watt SPL measurement on the box?
This one seems close and is almost half the size.
Mark
I forgot to post box size
The rough box size is:
Imperial 9.5 x 38 x 24
Metric 22.86 x 96.52 x 54.38
Of course this can be jugled a bit but the rough calculation was done with 120 litres. So there will be a bit more loss in horn path materials. But still 4.23 cubic feet will get you to levels few have heard. And the outlay in cash and amplifier power is modest.
Mark
The rough box size is:
Imperial 9.5 x 38 x 24
Metric 22.86 x 96.52 x 54.38
Of course this can be jugled a bit but the rough calculation was done with 120 litres. So there will be a bit more loss in horn path materials. But still 4.23 cubic feet will get you to levels few have heard. And the outlay in cash and amplifier power is modest.
Mark
Do you think I would keep everyone in suspense?
Something about working for a living. Being self employed and such. I actually have 5 designs in the works and three of them are close to fruition.
It depends on the weather conditions. Lots of rain equals more time in my shop.
Mark
Something about working for a living. Being self employed and such. I actually have 5 designs in the works and three of them are close to fruition.
It depends on the weather conditions. Lots of rain equals more time in my shop.
Mark
mwmkravchenko said:
The simulation in 1 Pi space was between 95dB to 97dB. I did measure it outdoors at 2.83Vrms. It measured about 92dB in 2 Pi space. According to the simulation it should have been closer to 94dB. I wasn't too worried, the damn thing was too loud for the house anyway.
Rgs, JLH
P.S. Just as a warning, 120dB is at the onset of pain for most people. I've never seen the need to go above 110dB in a car or the house. Anything above 95dB and things on the other side of the house begin to rattle.
Thank's JLH
I fully agree that 120db is to loud over most of music. Testing the Unhorn in the car was getting painfull with the young guys as I didn't bring hearing protection. It's amzaing how loud you can turn things up when the distortion is low. It just doesn't seem to bother you as much.
But when dealing with low bass below 30hz it is not that loud when you consider the threshold of audibility is about 70db in a normal room.
For 16hz the threshold of audibility is about 90db again in a normal room not an anechoic chamber. It's down there that I'm interested in the full potential of this sub. The rest is just window dressing.
I did read that your sub is banned from the house though. Cool in one way and to bad in another. I think the only way to incorporate monster boxes like these is to do it in a basement Reno or something similar. But I know more than one guy who has 5 cubic foot boxes in his living room. So to each his own. I don't have to work in WAF a blessing for somethings and a curse for others.
Mark
I fully agree that 120db is to loud over most of music. Testing the Unhorn in the car was getting painfull with the young guys as I didn't bring hearing protection. It's amzaing how loud you can turn things up when the distortion is low. It just doesn't seem to bother you as much.
But when dealing with low bass below 30hz it is not that loud when you consider the threshold of audibility is about 70db in a normal room.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
For 16hz the threshold of audibility is about 90db again in a normal room not an anechoic chamber. It's down there that I'm interested in the full potential of this sub. The rest is just window dressing.
I did read that your sub is banned from the house though. Cool in one way and to bad in another. I think the only way to incorporate monster boxes like these is to do it in a basement Reno or something similar. But I know more than one guy who has 5 cubic foot boxes in his living room. So to each his own. I don't have to work in WAF a blessing for somethings and a curse for others.
Mark
Re: Thank's JLH
This is a truism. Back when I (we) would have folks over, they would initially be taken aback by the sheer size of the old ~70 Hz horn theater system, naturally equating large = LOUD, so would let them control the volume lest I immediately damage their hearing as surely as mine (ours) must be. The upshot was that they would ultimately set it at near/at live levels and only realize how loud it was when they went to say something and couldn't hear themselves speak. Fun times. 🙂
Doubly true if the bass is very low distortion. My four 15"s were/are lower distortion than the vast majority of 'subs', but the SD Contrabass kits I wrecked my house with were at another level of 'dry' even when driven at nearly 12 dB louder at 20 Hz (>120 dB/14 ft), yet down this low the perception of 'loud' was mostly due to all the extra vibratory noise, not the organ pipe's output. Then there was the problem of dealing with the CD player's severe mis-tracking because the house was vibrating so much. Really fun times while it lasted. 😀
GM
mwmkravchenko said:
This is a truism. Back when I (we) would have folks over, they would initially be taken aback by the sheer size of the old ~70 Hz horn theater system, naturally equating large = LOUD, so would let them control the volume lest I immediately damage their hearing as surely as mine (ours) must be. The upshot was that they would ultimately set it at near/at live levels and only realize how loud it was when they went to say something and couldn't hear themselves speak. Fun times. 🙂
Doubly true if the bass is very low distortion. My four 15"s were/are lower distortion than the vast majority of 'subs', but the SD Contrabass kits I wrecked my house with were at another level of 'dry' even when driven at nearly 12 dB louder at 20 Hz (>120 dB/14 ft), yet down this low the perception of 'loud' was mostly due to all the extra vibratory noise, not the organ pipe's output. Then there was the problem of dealing with the CD player's severe mis-tracking because the house was vibrating so much. Really fun times while it lasted. 😀
GM
Brsanko
Drivers? What drivers the box does all the magic😉
GM
Yep heady days. I had a 5pc x 15" Monkey coffin setup for awhile. Driven with 400watts and tuned to 9hz. Just amazing what is down there in some recordings.
This box will be smaller and still be decent.
For reference system there are other drivers that shift more air for a permanent home installation. That would be one of the next designs coming in from the back burner.
A clone of the Cinemonster would be interesting. I don't know if anyone has done that one yet. The drivers are just a bit expensive. Although the Pyle 21" is a bit cheaper. I haven't seen decent specs to design from for the pyle.
Mark
Drivers? What drivers the box does all the magic😉
GM
Yep heady days. I had a 5pc x 15" Monkey coffin setup for awhile. Driven with 400watts and tuned to 9hz. Just amazing what is down there in some recordings.
This box will be smaller and still be decent.
For reference system there are other drivers that shift more air for a permanent home installation. That would be one of the next designs coming in from the back burner.
A clone of the Cinemonster would be interesting. I don't know if anyone has done that one yet. The drivers are just a bit expensive. Although the Pyle 21" is a bit cheaper. I haven't seen decent specs to design from for the pyle.
Mark
Cinemonster?
If you're referring to the Pyle PDW21250, Magnetar used some in OBs: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125773&highlight=
Somewhere he posted these measured specs:
Using 250 grams "mass loading" method and LIMP this is pretty much where they all average-
FS - 31.61
RE - 5.59
RES- 59.81
QMS- 4.03
QES- 0.38
QTS- 0.34
L1- 1.88
VAS - 274.29 liters
SPL - 95.4
GM
If you're referring to the Pyle PDW21250, Magnetar used some in OBs: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125773&highlight=
Somewhere he posted these measured specs:
Using 250 grams "mass loading" method and LIMP this is pretty much where they all average-
FS - 31.61
RE - 5.59
RES- 59.81
QMS- 4.03
QES- 0.38
QTS- 0.34
L1- 1.88
VAS - 274.29 liters
SPL - 95.4
GM
Thanks Gm much appreciated for the Pyle info
Ok back to off topic
Is there any interest in a design using two SDX7's that is flat to 18hz in about 2 cubic feet?
I worked out this one two days ago. It is the Unhorn 2 If I works out a good as a fold I will put this into my car. Forget the 4 SDX7 setup. That is a nightmare to setup as a folded horn. The Unhorn2 is al the bass I will need in a car.
Next question.
Bluntly 6000 hits and has anybody built anything?
Do you need more design info?
Does anybody want to build anything if I can figure a cheaper driver that will work on the Unhorn?
I have 4 in stock at the moment. Two SONY one mid-range and one want to be woofer. A vifa P17..... and a generic big momma with a 50hz Fs. It will probably work the best.
The trade off is ultimate loudness as far as I have been able to model. And low end cut off. Some of the low end cutoff is driver independent. It is a function of the box. But the X-max is a big issue for most of the cheap drivers. If I get enough requests I will put in the time to measure each in the box.
Mark
Ok back to off topic
Is there any interest in a design using two SDX7's that is flat to 18hz in about 2 cubic feet?
I worked out this one two days ago. It is the Unhorn 2 If I works out a good as a fold I will put this into my car. Forget the 4 SDX7 setup. That is a nightmare to setup as a folded horn. The Unhorn2 is al the bass I will need in a car.
Next question.
Bluntly 6000 hits and has anybody built anything?
Do you need more design info?
Does anybody want to build anything if I can figure a cheaper driver that will work on the Unhorn?
I have 4 in stock at the moment. Two SONY one mid-range and one want to be woofer. A vifa P17..... and a generic big momma with a 50hz Fs. It will probably work the best.
The trade off is ultimate loudness as far as I have been able to model. And low end cut off. Some of the low end cutoff is driver independent. It is a function of the box. But the X-max is a big issue for most of the cheap drivers. If I get enough requests I will put in the time to measure each in the box.
Mark
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