Nordic said:
Just watch adjusting the bias by ear as it can end in tears.
You really need to set the bias initially, then let it warm up for an hour or so and then re-adjust. Play some tunes at a moderate level for about 15 minutes then re-adjust. Then play tunes at higher levels for about 30 minutes and then re-adjust.
These are a bit different to chipamp to get up and running hey, and the Mauro makes it so easy as it's plug and pray only.
Adjustments made was needed, it was distorting alot with bias level set useing measurement... changes were made almost microscopic small at a time, as it is a single turn pot...and about 15 minutes appart ramping the volume gradualy ....
Heatsinks are still cool after 2 hours now as are the transistors.
Still gives some high frequency distortion right at the start which goes away after a song or two... (note.. my speakes are not well balanced... being verry bright), I also don't have speaker in default position, so I cant make bass comparison.
But what I hear is very realistic.. The GC has more bass.. but it is not as controlled... and GC has the benifit of an awesome preamp... while this amp is getting only headphone output from ipod shuffle now. This amp tells me once again how good my GC is...
DxA: large diffirence between sound from song to song... so MUCH less coloured..
The GC is more mellow but whatch this space opinion may change once we have two channels and a case, so we can do comparison...
DxA has astounding detail in high frequency sound, and it seems possible to follow low intensity sounds until they get very small.
You get good variety in range of symbal hits and subtle things like instrument and mike bumps... listening with ratther complex material like Portis head live recordings etc...
If anything the DxA sounds alot like my dad's old Kenwood from the 80s, that thing could sing.
I am most satisfied...
Muito obrigado, Carlos
Heatsinks are still cool after 2 hours now as are the transistors.
Still gives some high frequency distortion right at the start which goes away after a song or two... (note.. my speakes are not well balanced... being verry bright), I also don't have speaker in default position, so I cant make bass comparison.
But what I hear is very realistic.. The GC has more bass.. but it is not as controlled... and GC has the benifit of an awesome preamp... while this amp is getting only headphone output from ipod shuffle now. This amp tells me once again how good my GC is...
DxA: large diffirence between sound from song to song... so MUCH less coloured..
The GC is more mellow but whatch this space opinion may change once we have two channels and a case, so we can do comparison...
DxA has astounding detail in high frequency sound, and it seems possible to follow low intensity sounds until they get very small.
You get good variety in range of symbal hits and subtle things like instrument and mike bumps... listening with ratther complex material like Portis head live recordings etc...
If anything the DxA sounds alot like my dad's old Kenwood from the 80s, that thing could sing.
I am most satisfied...
Muito obrigado, Carlos
De nada meu amigo...foi um prazer.
You are welcome my friend...was a pleasure.
And finished with more pleasure...hummmm..this 12 old is really good...this taste of wood drives me crazy...hic!
I use to drink only during new year.... this is a special moment, as this "children" was difficult to born...the amplifier i mean.
When you finish your adjustments and evaluations...i will be happy to know, once more, the transistors you are using and in special the bias current you have found as perfect.
If possible, the bias potentiometer resistance ...this is to check this drunk simulator i have (I hate it!)
Despite friends will not be interested..but i will he happy to know the VBEs...all transistor vbes....
Of course Nordic....next week....or the other will follow the next one...hehe
panzertoo@yahoo.com
regards,
Carlos
You are welcome my friend...was a pleasure.
And finished with more pleasure...hummmm..this 12 old is really good...this taste of wood drives me crazy...hic!
I use to drink only during new year.... this is a special moment, as this "children" was difficult to born...the amplifier i mean.
When you finish your adjustments and evaluations...i will be happy to know, once more, the transistors you are using and in special the bias current you have found as perfect.
If possible, the bias potentiometer resistance ...this is to check this drunk simulator i have (I hate it!)
Despite friends will not be interested..but i will he happy to know the VBEs...all transistor vbes....
Of course Nordic....next week....or the other will follow the next one...hehe
panzertoo@yahoo.com
regards,
Carlos
That's exactly what i have perceived..it takes some minutes to stabilize.
As Rabbitz said...need some time....a couple of hours i think.
I have perceived exactly this.... turning closer the natural sound...each time more realistic.... steps going to that sound I used to listen when i touched my ears over a tube amplifier output transformer... sound was there and very clear.
Also the old stylus...listening to it in a silent environment...try a saxophone...it will scratch..... try a violine...your arms hairs will be stand!.... i mean the real scratching the sound instrument does... the guitar divisions beeing touched by strings... the fingers beeing passed over guitar strings...that noise is there...listen ocean water...the bubbles blowing...not hissing.... real!
I think the remotion of parts..each one were cooperating with the resultand mess..harshes you do not listen in this toy...not mufled too...speaker will jump out the frame if you have enougth bass level in the input..it can drive clear 0.5 sinus signal..you will see the speaker diafragm travel without pops....that old story of "wire with gain"..simple things sounding more clear.
Well.... this is my imagination.... the conclusion i have today..of course i can change my mind because my natural evolution.
Comparing with better ones, it will never be ashamed!....yeah!...can loose, and lost in something to Symassym....lost to Aksa related trebles too.... was humiliated by GEM related dinamic power, bass and voices...but not too much..difference is something that made me respect the first guy that created bootstrapp...
I can loose.....no problem...but no one will call me "Shirley " and i will not eat my boards..as the difference is not enougth to go to construct complicated circuits i think.....distorts more, when near the limit of clipping...more than some others...well.... just reduce the volume and be happy!
I cannot see, too much reasons to construct a monster using 50 transistors when 8 can do the job..beeing simple...and cheap!...
wanna the best...well...the best has its price...go to Aksa!
Damn Symassym (pure envy!)...the fast attack...the terrible slew rate ( and mike snobbing saying not special...grumpf!...i hate winners like him....kidding folks!)...the Symassym..that bunch of sausages, make us fall down from the chair when a fortíssimo suddenly arrives into the music..the difference of volume turns you scared.... and send shame to others small toys alike mine.
Aksa use to make me cry listening female voices and sad violine notes...no one can beat that one...hehe...only my bass could face Aksa!... i mean the 55.
Wanna blow your ear membrane?.... use a headphone!
Well..this is my "party" speech...serve yourself..have a drink and enjoy folks.
regards,
Carlos
As Rabbitz said...need some time....a couple of hours i think.
I have perceived exactly this.... turning closer the natural sound...each time more realistic.... steps going to that sound I used to listen when i touched my ears over a tube amplifier output transformer... sound was there and very clear.
Also the old stylus...listening to it in a silent environment...try a saxophone...it will scratch..... try a violine...your arms hairs will be stand!.... i mean the real scratching the sound instrument does... the guitar divisions beeing touched by strings... the fingers beeing passed over guitar strings...that noise is there...listen ocean water...the bubbles blowing...not hissing.... real!
I think the remotion of parts..each one were cooperating with the resultand mess..harshes you do not listen in this toy...not mufled too...speaker will jump out the frame if you have enougth bass level in the input..it can drive clear 0.5 sinus signal..you will see the speaker diafragm travel without pops....that old story of "wire with gain"..simple things sounding more clear.
Well.... this is my imagination.... the conclusion i have today..of course i can change my mind because my natural evolution.
Comparing with better ones, it will never be ashamed!....yeah!...can loose, and lost in something to Symassym....lost to Aksa related trebles too.... was humiliated by GEM related dinamic power, bass and voices...but not too much..difference is something that made me respect the first guy that created bootstrapp...
I can loose.....no problem...but no one will call me "Shirley " and i will not eat my boards..as the difference is not enougth to go to construct complicated circuits i think.....distorts more, when near the limit of clipping...more than some others...well.... just reduce the volume and be happy!
I cannot see, too much reasons to construct a monster using 50 transistors when 8 can do the job..beeing simple...and cheap!...
wanna the best...well...the best has its price...go to Aksa!
Damn Symassym (pure envy!)...the fast attack...the terrible slew rate ( and mike snobbing saying not special...grumpf!...i hate winners like him....kidding folks!)...the Symassym..that bunch of sausages, make us fall down from the chair when a fortíssimo suddenly arrives into the music..the difference of volume turns you scared.... and send shame to others small toys alike mine.
Aksa use to make me cry listening female voices and sad violine notes...no one can beat that one...hehe...only my bass could face Aksa!... i mean the 55.
Wanna blow your ear membrane?.... use a headphone!
Well..this is my "party" speech...serve yourself..have a drink and enjoy folks.
regards,
Carlos
I have tested that smoke during army....but made me sick
I do not want to try once more.
Will fly with my Wiskie.
Also complicated here...society do not accept...neighboors smelling those cigars they knock your door...only high society has their own methods.
Yeah...all those things foolishes..i do think this way too... wiskie and cigarettes killing us daily.... hundreds of drugs circulating free..but those cigars are bad...foolishes.
regards,
Carlos
I do not want to try once more.
Will fly with my Wiskie.
Also complicated here...society do not accept...neighboors smelling those cigars they knock your door...only high society has their own methods.
Yeah...all those things foolishes..i do think this way too... wiskie and cigarettes killing us daily.... hundreds of drugs circulating free..but those cigars are bad...foolishes.
regards,
Carlos
Nordic said:
It's quite a big step to go from a chipamp to a SS amp like the DX and you hung in there like a trouper despite some set backs.... well done!
You'll find the sound will improve as the days goes by. Most of the amps I've built need about 15 hours and up to 150 hours to really kick in.
Enjoy
This needed time Rabbitz... are they used to with components...only caps?
Black gates also need that as i am sure you know that also...but i would like to extract....well, to suck some knowledge from you.
If you want...if you feel confortable to give us that chance to know something you have perceived...those timings, and your subjective evaluation of capacitor types.
The ones your personally like...the ones gave you bad experiences...you know...that one!....gave you relief when you remove it and substitute by another.
I would be happy to listen some from you.....yeah...your subjective, personal experience....what you think about.
Something not to discuss or criticize...nor do debate or dennie...just to know other point of view, to evaluate were we had the same experiences and were we can help one each other....thing to be tested latter..to make part of reflections.
You could see...the thread has no "owners of the truth"..there's no PHD here...or at less, they are not using their titles here...people say what they think and they have not the responsability to be an enciclopedia...they have their things to contribute and they did.
Bad folks do not enter..as you see that they will feel reaction and moderators are watching...so...we have a peacefull place to have a good talk.
If you feel yourself confortable...please...let us know something about your experience.... i see by Greg, by your job and by your conversation that you have a lot to contribute.
Well....do not feel forced...you were just invited...i know you are sick...maybe another day...not problems.
Sorry folks...i am on doubts..wich...witch...with.... what components you think that need some time?.... i was thinking condensers only..but i see that others may need a time too...wanna listen you Rabbitz.
Man!... the speakers..from your job....they are wonderfull!... at least they look great...that wood...what is the name?
regards
Carlos
Black gates also need that as i am sure you know that also...but i would like to extract....well, to suck some knowledge from you.
If you want...if you feel confortable to give us that chance to know something you have perceived...those timings, and your subjective evaluation of capacitor types.
The ones your personally like...the ones gave you bad experiences...you know...that one!....gave you relief when you remove it and substitute by another.
I would be happy to listen some from you.....yeah...your subjective, personal experience....what you think about.
Something not to discuss or criticize...nor do debate or dennie...just to know other point of view, to evaluate were we had the same experiences and were we can help one each other....thing to be tested latter..to make part of reflections.
You could see...the thread has no "owners of the truth"..there's no PHD here...or at less, they are not using their titles here...people say what they think and they have not the responsability to be an enciclopedia...they have their things to contribute and they did.
Bad folks do not enter..as you see that they will feel reaction and moderators are watching...so...we have a peacefull place to have a good talk.
If you feel yourself confortable...please...let us know something about your experience.... i see by Greg, by your job and by your conversation that you have a lot to contribute.
Well....do not feel forced...you were just invited...i know you are sick...maybe another day...not problems.
Sorry folks...i am on doubts..wich...witch...with.... what components you think that need some time?.... i was thinking condensers only..but i see that others may need a time too...wanna listen you Rabbitz.
Man!... the speakers..from your job....they are wonderfull!... at least they look great...that wood...what is the name?
regards
Carlos
My wife and I said t the same time the amp is getting better after it played for a few hours... I don't wory about it too much, as long as change is for the better... I find this normally more prominent with brand new capacitors. even with ICs.
Lol it s much better than the gainclone... I now hear a very high frequency osscilation with the GC... very high, but very annoying, and it sounds like it is under a cushion in comparison... to the SS amp. Oh that sound... can't say I ever realy heard it, but now it drills through my head like dentist drill... my wife says she can't hear it...Damn I must finish this amp quickly.
Lol it s much better than the gainclone... I now hear a very high frequency osscilation with the GC... very high, but very annoying, and it sounds like it is under a cushion in comparison... to the SS amp. Oh that sound... can't say I ever realy heard it, but now it drills through my head like dentist drill... my wife says she can't hear it...Damn I must finish this amp quickly.
Hi Nordic
At first when I read your opinion about DxAmp I was a little bit surprised and sad due to your comparison of DxA with GC. Now when when You've testified that DxA started to show it's real nature (beautifull nature) after not-so-long burn-in I'm happy again, You brought light and faith to me ("Forgive me father for I have lost my trust in the greatness of this design") heheh. Thank You.
regards
At first when I read your opinion about DxAmp I was a little bit surprised and sad due to your comparison of DxA with GC. Now when when You've testified that DxA started to show it's real nature (beautifull nature) after not-so-long burn-in I'm happy again, You brought light and faith to me ("Forgive me father for I have lost my trust in the greatness of this design") heheh. Thank You.
regards
God bless you my dear Son and Nephew
faith is needed....but LISTENING TESTS...are much better..yeah!
My test speaker is mufled folks..as the more linear one was burned because of too much power (Dx amp power on bass)...because of that i made a compensation... to increase treble, the tweeter driver had to be replaced to a more efficient one...not to destroy the crossover calibration.
Then i included a 100N capacitor in parallell with R10...my God!..during testing...doors closed...10 watts on bells sounds and my wife was complaining 15 meters distant...and three doors between her and the bells recording playing.
She told me that even with washing machine working and food processor that she was hard disturbed by the high levels in hi frequencies (women hate that)
Wanna listen treble...hehe..try that 100n cap.... in special when wife's mother is around...grrrrr.
This gainclone can be fixed Nordic..it works fine when tweaked... i do not think it can match a solid state amplifier..because of small distances between electrodes, beeing dangerous to oscilations, forced the chip designers to use compensations..also the protections they have that kill sonics, treble and dinamics.
It will lost for good SS one...the distance...again not so big...pleasant listening can come from gainclone if you adjust it.
I made it...was considered good...but not enougth to a solid state comparison.
Well...this is subjective..for sure there are thousands that think exactly the opposite..that diversity is what turns world so interesting...i was thinking if threes, ocean...sand and sky..all them green...awfull!
There are folks...i have a friend...a single one..just that one..that loves chips...he say aaagh to any solid state....noises he say always!...noises!.
Well.... chip factories must survive...also all business system...we have room for all..;.. also..if you do not compare...having not the chance to listen one and other at the same time...you can spend your whole life thinking that nothing is better than the first one you had...that first and great...or first and last in this case.
Always... when you switch-on a good chip amplifier you feel yourself surprised..how that tiny thing could produce this sound?....well this finishes when you switch a solid state one and compare.
This happens when we married twice..hehe...the comparison brings some knowledge...the problem is that after twice we gonna have the third...and fouth...and so on.
regards,
Carlos
faith is needed....but LISTENING TESTS...are much better..yeah!
My test speaker is mufled folks..as the more linear one was burned because of too much power (Dx amp power on bass)...because of that i made a compensation... to increase treble, the tweeter driver had to be replaced to a more efficient one...not to destroy the crossover calibration.
Then i included a 100N capacitor in parallell with R10...my God!..during testing...doors closed...10 watts on bells sounds and my wife was complaining 15 meters distant...and three doors between her and the bells recording playing.
She told me that even with washing machine working and food processor that she was hard disturbed by the high levels in hi frequencies (women hate that)
Wanna listen treble...hehe..try that 100n cap.... in special when wife's mother is around...grrrrr.
This gainclone can be fixed Nordic..it works fine when tweaked... i do not think it can match a solid state amplifier..because of small distances between electrodes, beeing dangerous to oscilations, forced the chip designers to use compensations..also the protections they have that kill sonics, treble and dinamics.
It will lost for good SS one...the distance...again not so big...pleasant listening can come from gainclone if you adjust it.
I made it...was considered good...but not enougth to a solid state comparison.
Well...this is subjective..for sure there are thousands that think exactly the opposite..that diversity is what turns world so interesting...i was thinking if threes, ocean...sand and sky..all them green...awfull!
There are folks...i have a friend...a single one..just that one..that loves chips...he say aaagh to any solid state....noises he say always!...noises!.
Well.... chip factories must survive...also all business system...we have room for all..;.. also..if you do not compare...having not the chance to listen one and other at the same time...you can spend your whole life thinking that nothing is better than the first one you had...that first and great...or first and last in this case.
Always... when you switch-on a good chip amplifier you feel yourself surprised..how that tiny thing could produce this sound?....well this finishes when you switch a solid state one and compare.
This happens when we married twice..hehe...the comparison brings some knowledge...the problem is that after twice we gonna have the third...and fouth...and so on.
regards,
Carlos
And what about your design Sparkle?
Have you already elected the tophologie to be used..or even the mains subcircuits from various thopologies?
Have you already made that schematic idea before calculations?
that sketch we use to make to think about...that smashed paper..made this way because of hard use, the one we use to watch and produce our reflections and self made questions?
I will he happy to now your thougths....here or even directly.
panzertoo@yahoo.com
regards,
Carlos
Have you already elected the tophologie to be used..or even the mains subcircuits from various thopologies?
Have you already made that schematic idea before calculations?
that sketch we use to make to think about...that smashed paper..made this way because of hard use, the one we use to watch and produce our reflections and self made questions?
I will he happy to now your thougths....here or even directly.
panzertoo@yahoo.com
regards,
Carlos
Hi Carlos and everyone,
I've been reading this thread with much interest (and laughter, Carlos - you are a clever and entertaining man!)
I am thinking about building this one. Like Nordic, I haven't yet built a discrete amplifier, having only built chip amps.
Nordic, I couldn't find what transformer rating you settled on - what was it voltage-wise?
Carlos, I remember reading a post where you stated the power outputs for various transformer ratings, but cannot find it again. What voltage would I need to output ~100w into 8 ohms?
Are the layouts on your pages of Greg's website up to date?
Thanks for sharing your design. I like your philosophy of good sound using fairly common parts.
Cheers
Mark
I've been reading this thread with much interest (and laughter, Carlos - you are a clever and entertaining man!)
I am thinking about building this one. Like Nordic, I haven't yet built a discrete amplifier, having only built chip amps.
Nordic, I couldn't find what transformer rating you settled on - what was it voltage-wise?
Carlos, I remember reading a post where you stated the power outputs for various transformer ratings, but cannot find it again. What voltage would I need to output ~100w into 8 ohms?
Are the layouts on your pages of Greg's website up to date?
Thanks for sharing your design. I like your philosophy of good sound using fairly common parts.
Cheers
Mark
Stuey said:
Hi Stuey,
Welcome aboard. I hope the website is up-to-date because that's what I'm using to building mine.
I'm testing the documentation as well as the design. Carlos and I are adding and refining the information all the time, so things will change.In theory, the website should contain all the information to build one to the standard specs without having to read through the whole thread. If not let us know. I have found a few minor things that have yet to be updated.
regards
- Status
- Not open for further replies.