DOUBLE BLIND DOUBLE DEAF.
Hi,
It's not because I agree with this way to go about DBT that I agree with the heap of crap I read in this thread.
Any kind of measurement and testing is very useful, at the end of the day however it all depends on the intelligence of the person(s) interpreting the result(s) and how to draw conclusions from them.
Hope you can spot the difference?
Cheers,
Hi,
It's not because I agree with this way to go about DBT that I agree with the heap of crap I read in this thread.
Any kind of measurement and testing is very useful, at the end of the day however it all depends on the intelligence of the person(s) interpreting the result(s) and how to draw conclusions from them.
Hope you can spot the difference?
Cheers,
Worlds Cleanest Amplifier.
The only amplifier in the world to challenge a theoretical limit unprecedented harmonic distortion levels of less than 1000 parts per billion
Over the past 50 years it has taken the typical audio manufacturer 50 years to reduce distortion at 20kHz from .1% to .01%. Now, with a single revolutionary technological advancement, Halcro™ has reduced distortion to less than 0.0001%. In fact, all unpleasant distortion in the output stage has been virtually eliminated.
I said exactly this sort of stuff way back in this thread, and now we have documented proof.
For you 'null testers', your amplifiers need to be as good as the Halcro to be indistiguishable, and if they are not, then the internal distortion products will be audible, and then by definition distinguishable.
0.01% amplifiers are distorted enough for the human ear to detect and categorise the distortions, especially IMD products.
I rest my case.
Eric.
Halcro, another Aussie world beater.
The only amplifier in the world to challenge a theoretical limit unprecedented harmonic distortion levels of less than 1000 parts per billion
Over the past 50 years it has taken the typical audio manufacturer 50 years to reduce distortion at 20kHz from .1% to .01%. Now, with a single revolutionary technological advancement, Halcro™ has reduced distortion to less than 0.0001%. In fact, all unpleasant distortion in the output stage has been virtually eliminated.
I said exactly this sort of stuff way back in this thread, and now we have documented proof.
For you 'null testers', your amplifiers need to be as good as the Halcro to be indistiguishable, and if they are not, then the internal distortion products will be audible, and then by definition distinguishable.
0.01% amplifiers are distorted enough for the human ear to detect and categorise the distortions, especially IMD products.
I rest my case.
Eric.
Halcro, another Aussie world beater.
Peter Daniel said:
As I said, anyone is free to believe what they wish. That doesn't mean that if they're spouting what I consider to be nonsense that I'm not going to say anything about it.
See, and that's how I feel about some of the stuff that people claim on these forums. Pathetic at the least. That aside, the point is that I couldn't imagine you'd advocate people teaching/advocating theories that are provably untrue. Yet, at the same time, I see this same thing all the time on these boards.
schmad said:
I'm not sure if I'm advocating those theories. But OTOH, I still didn't find a reason to believe they are not true so I prefer to believe they are true.
This gives me drive and enjoyment to do what I'm doing, and audio became a sort of an adventure to me. That's why I despise the people who spoil my fun.
That's about it.Re: Worlds Cleanest Amplifier.
...you are neither the first nor doubtless the last to be taken in by a manufacturer's sells blab.........to call such 'proof' is rather premature...
...tuned in readers will note that Cordell's amp. in JAES achieved the same level of THD+N some 20 years before DR. Candy's design..
...note also that Halcro's much vaunted low distortion is unconventionally specified without noise.......
...In practice and from steoreophiles measurements using Audio Precision equipment, THD+N is of the same order as that generated by the NE5534 driven to 10V peak output...namely 6ppm-8ppm across the audio band.........(not as earth shaking then as 600ppb!! ).....
also, according to Stereophile, the designer conceded that the 'sound quality' of his designs owed more to the quality of the power supply than anything else.....nothing new there then..
mrfeedback said:The only amplifier in the world to challenge a theoretical limit unprecedented harmonic distortion levels of less than 1000 parts per billion
Over the past 50 years it has taken the typical audio manufacturer 50 years to reduce distortion at 20kHz from .1% to .01%. Now, with a single revolutionary technological advancement, Halcro™ has reduced distortion to less than 0.0001%. In fact, all unpleasant distortion in the output stage has been virtually eliminated.
I said exactly this sort of stuff way back in this thread, and now we have documented proof.
For you 'null testers', your amplifiers need to be as good as the Halcro to be indistiguishable, and if they are not, then the internal distortion products will be audible, and then by definition distinguishable.
0.01% amplifiers are distorted enough for the human ear to detect and categorise the distortions, especially IMD products.
I rest my case.
Eric.
Halcro, another Aussie world beater.
...you are neither the first nor doubtless the last to be taken in by a manufacturer's sells blab.........to call such 'proof' is rather premature...
...tuned in readers will note that Cordell's amp. in JAES achieved the same level of THD+N some 20 years before DR. Candy's design..
...note also that Halcro's much vaunted low distortion is unconventionally specified without noise.......
...In practice and from steoreophiles measurements using Audio Precision equipment, THD+N is of the same order as that generated by the NE5534 driven to 10V peak output...namely 6ppm-8ppm across the audio band.........(not as earth shaking then as 600ppb!!
).....also, according to Stereophile, the designer conceded that the 'sound quality' of his designs owed more to the quality of the power supply than anything else.....nothing new there then..
Re: DOUBLE BLIND DOUBLE DEAF.
AHH SOO!!
...you do 'agree' with his findings then!
mikek said:
fdegrove said:Hi,
It's not because I agree with this way to go about DBT that I agree with the heap of crap I read in this thread.
Any kind of measurement and testing is very useful, at the end of the day however it all depends on the intelligence of the person(s) interpreting the result(s) and how to draw conclusions from them.
Hope you can spot the difference?
Cheers,
AHH SOO!!
...you do 'agree' with his findings then! schmad said:
I have never mentioned anything about math and physics fall behind the times, however the correlation between numbers, graphs and what we CAN and DO hear surely does. Seems you have a problem understanding this... your loss not mine.
MY experience are fact as I have successful blind tests behind me to support what I hear and not hear, yet another thing you seems to have problem understanding.
My hearing was tested by a Doctor two years ago and I hear 10dB better than the average human, according to the Dr.
Some guys are refering to "big names" and tests, I don´t care much about them or their names since their testing methods are old or done in the wrong manner. producing "false" and useless results.
You don´t need to ask me to have an open mind as I do allready have that since waaay back. Therefore it´s really funny for me to see how thickheaded some guys at this board are, going on with their "blah blah" when they don´t have a clue about what they are talking about.
/Peter
Re: Re: purplepeople wrote:
Patriot V100 4MHz, 800V/uS
Zapsolute 1MHz
DynamicPrecision 800kHz, greater than 250V/uS
Spectral 600V/uS, this one I´ve not heard though.
And yes, these are audio amps, I usually use audio amps when listening to audio/music Do you have a better solution/suggestion?
/Peter
schmad said:
Patriot V100 4MHz, 800V/uS
Zapsolute 1MHz
DynamicPrecision 800kHz, greater than 250V/uS
Spectral 600V/uS, this one I´ve not heard though.
And yes, these are audio amps, I usually use audio amps when listening to audio/music
Do you have a better solution/suggestion?/Peter
schmad said:
How stupid comments.
Before anyone managed to describe/proove with science and math that the earth was round and spinning around the sun, does that mean that the earth actually WAS flat and the sun was spinning around the earth ???
Neither life itself or magnetism can be described and explained by any scientist, does that mean we are not here??? Wake up please...
What many of us DO hear is actually there, soon we will have perfect methods to describe this in numbers and graphs, we are not fully there yet though as far as I understand.
/Peter
Re: Re: purplepeople wrote:
I think the numbers are -3dB full power bandwith up to 20k, I´m not sure though. See my other post for "spec´s" of some high resolution amps. If I remember correct Spectral has/had an amp with 5MHz BW.
The Patriot V100 has an slewrate of 800V/uS and is a 100W/8 ohm class A amp. I dont know where you get 6kV from.
/Peter
mikek said:
Helllllllllll......Nooooo......!!!!
...slew rate of 800V/uS...am i correct in assuming the amp. swings in excess of 6KV peak for this to be true, (i.e: 'audible')?
I think the numbers are -3dB full power bandwith up to 20k, I´m not sure though. See my other post for "spec´s" of some high resolution amps. If I remember correct Spectral has/had an amp with 5MHz BW.
The Patriot V100 has an slewrate of 800V/uS and is a 100W/8 ohm class A amp. I dont know where you get 6kV from.
/Peter
mikek said:
Peter old chap
surely your ears are not the much vaunted 'modern standards' at issue here..
Dear apprentice,
any old theory that contradicts my and MANY others findings about audibility of low level distortion in audio gear...
/Peter
mikek said:
.......At what frequency did the good Doctor indicate your hearing to be 'better than the average human being'?
.....And equally pertinently, what age of Human being did the good Doctor have in mind?
It was one of those test where you put on can´s, sit in a silent room, and then listens to sinewaves at various frequencies. Don´t remember exactly the "BW" of the test but could it have been 100Hz - 5k or something like that? At 5 or so fr. points.
About age, I don´t remember but the Dr was sure "impressed" and surprised, not me though, I knew I had good hearing
/Peter
Older Ears Can Be Better Than Younger Ears....
Hi Peter,
With agieng, it is to be expected that your (our) hearing sensitivity and bandwidth degrades, however the ear/brain system is self learning, and according to aural experiences can actully become more discriminating.
The more of, and better systems that you get to experience, the bigger and better the database of 'captured' sounds you will accumulate, and become an even better judge of systems.
Also be aware that one's sonic preferences may change during this period also.
These factors are ones that our younger bretheren seem not to understand.
Eric.
Pan said:About age, I don´t remember but the Dr was sure "impressed" and surprised, not me though, I knew I had good hearing
/Peter
Hi Peter,
With agieng, it is to be expected that your (our) hearing sensitivity and bandwidth degrades, however the ear/brain system is self learning, and according to aural experiences can actully become more discriminating.
The more of, and better systems that you get to experience, the bigger and better the database of 'captured' sounds you will accumulate, and become an even better judge of systems.
Also be aware that one's sonic preferences may change during this period also.
These factors are ones that our younger bretheren seem not to understand.
Eric.
Ah, the Halcros...
Sometime ago, I already said here, I listened to the Halcros (the amps and the preamp).
To me, they were playing very well, but the conditions were not optimal for the listening session.
Some people didn't interpret very well my words, because I never said it's the best.
But it has an impressive soundstage (large and deeep).
I would really like to hear to them in my room.
People (and the manufacturer) say they are the finest amp ever made.
I don't believe in that.
You had to listen to every amp in the world, and then you could say what's best.
As I don't believe specs are everything (they are just an initial indication), just by reading a paper I would not say it's the best.
It could have the best spects, just that.
But I would have to hear it, and all the others.
Of course, that's impossible.
So... the rest is marketing.
Sometime ago, I already said here, I listened to the Halcros (the amps and the preamp).
To me, they were playing very well, but the conditions were not optimal for the listening session.
Some people didn't interpret very well my words, because I never said it's the best.
But it has an impressive soundstage (large and deeep).
I would really like to hear to them in my room.
People (and the manufacturer) say they are the finest amp ever made.
I don't believe in that.
You had to listen to every amp in the world, and then you could say what's best.
As I don't believe specs are everything (they are just an initial indication), just by reading a paper I would not say it's the best.
It could have the best spects, just that.
But I would have to hear it, and all the others.
Of course, that's impossible.
So... the rest is marketing.
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