Last I checked the tapped feature in this software was not giving accurate results. Everything else was working fine except this feature. Not sure if it was ever fixed but just make sure to check a sample design and compare with Hornresp before using or trusting the tapped feature in this software.
If anyone wants to do a comparison and post results that would be great. Just to see if it ever got fixed. I probably will get around to it some day but it's not high on my priority list.
At this point I seriously doubt it. When was the last time he issued an update or posted in this thread?
@ GM et al
I scanned both the URL & setup.exe
Norton is giving a FP False Positive detection. It often does this, as can others too.
Norton = Symantec = same company
LOTS of files are named setup.exe ! So it would be better if software coders named them similar to the program, eg transline.exe Otherwise we can end up with many .exe's with identical names ! I always rename All setup.exe's i get, before i run them & save them.
Thanks GM and Zero D, I submitted Leonard Audio | Audio Engineering Resources to Norton's automated security check and they sent an email indicating that they could not find any issue with the site, but they did not alot a case file number to my request, and after doing a Norton update and reopening the website, I could still not open the file. So after a day of trying, I finally got a live representative from Norton to check the site and they through a remote desktop session downloaded Leonardaudio's program and they say that it is not a dangerous site.
What a lot of work and Norton's website is very difficult to navigate. I never would have been able to do it myself with out the remote session.
And the reason I pay Norton for their anti-virus is because I need a fool-proof, idiot-proof service that automatically protects me without any input from me personally and except for Leonard Audio, Hornresp, and Freemake free video downloader, it has worked well.
Last edited:
Sorry to bump an old thread, but I figured this was the place to come for help. If not hopefully someone will point me in the right direction.
I've used the LA software to model a couple of designs and my models don't seem to really jive with conventional wisdom, mainly that I get a really smooth response when the driver is at or very near to half of the line. When I place the driver around 1/3 I get a pretty poor response overall.
With both designs, I've asked Paul Kittinger to take a look and both time he has suggested changes, but when I model his design, I think that mine looks smoother.... or maybe I don't really know what a good design should look like.
These have been an ML-TQWT and an ML-TL.
The way I use the software is I usually use the wizard to open a straight line. Then size it for length, beginning and end surface area and tapper if any. Then I add any sections to represent folds and another so I can add a branch that is open to represent the port. Then I move the driver, which I uploaded, and port until I'm happy. Then I usually use about .15lb/ft2 fill in the first half of the line.
The first image depicts my latest ML-TL and the the second image is Paul's revision with the driver at 1/3 from the beginning and the port about 11.5" from the end.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
I've used the LA software to model a couple of designs and my models don't seem to really jive with conventional wisdom, mainly that I get a really smooth response when the driver is at or very near to half of the line. When I place the driver around 1/3 I get a pretty poor response overall.
With both designs, I've asked Paul Kittinger to take a look and both time he has suggested changes, but when I model his design, I think that mine looks smoother.... or maybe I don't really know what a good design should look like.
These have been an ML-TQWT and an ML-TL.
The way I use the software is I usually use the wizard to open a straight line. Then size it for length, beginning and end surface area and tapper if any. Then I add any sections to represent folds and another so I can add a branch that is open to represent the port. Then I move the driver, which I uploaded, and port until I'm happy. Then I usually use about .15lb/ft2 fill in the first half of the line.
The first image depicts my latest ML-TL and the the second image is Paul's revision with the driver at 1/3 from the beginning and the port about 11.5" from the end.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
Attachments
Ian are you listening in these days? Cannot run the software, appears to give me a graphics issue and fails to run. Have fault file on the problem (see below). The symptom occurred when switching from my HDTV for a display and then back to the laptop display. It must have got stuck on the old. Sadly cannot hook it up to the HDTV anymore as one of my son's caregivers killed it after repeatedly telling the flake to stop using the TV. Even had to hide the power cord and the basta*d dug through my stuff and powered it up anyway. DEAD
************** Exception Text **************
System.ArgumentException: Parameter is not valid.
at System.Drawing.Bitmap..ctor(Int32 width, Int32 height, PixelFormat format)
at System.Drawing.Bitmap..ctor(Int32 width, Int32 height)
at TransmissionLine.myGraphClass.DrawAxisFunction(Int32 DisplayWidth, Int32 DisplayHeight)
at TransmissionLine.myGraphClass.DrawAxis(Int32 DisplayWidth, Int32 DisplayHeight)
at TransmissionLine.Form1.DrawGraphAxis()
at TransmissionLine.Form1.SetupGraphs()
at TransmissionLine.Form1.Form1_Load(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.EventHandler.Invoke(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Form.OnLoad(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Form.OnCreateControl()
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.CreateControl(Boolean fIgnoreVisible)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.CreateControl()
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmShowWindow(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Form.WmShowWindow(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v4.0.30319/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
TransmissionLine
Assembly Version: 3.6.3.5
Win32 Version: 3.6.3.5
CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Mike/AppData/Local/Apps/2.0/OK54YQ1T.5GM/3V7CJM32.NE7/tran..tion_127a55d62cc03faa_0003.0006_03fd5c6fef0309f2/TransmissionLine.exe
----------------------------------------
Microsoft.VisualBasic
Assembly Version: 10.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 14.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Microsoft.VisualBasic/v4.0_10.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Core
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Runtime.Remoting
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Runtime.Remoting/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Runtime.Remoting.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
Accessibility
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Accessibility/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Accessibility.dll
----------------------------------------
Microsoft.GeneratedCode
Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
************** Exception Text **************
System.ArgumentException: Parameter is not valid.
at System.Drawing.Bitmap..ctor(Int32 width, Int32 height, PixelFormat format)
at System.Drawing.Bitmap..ctor(Int32 width, Int32 height)
at TransmissionLine.myGraphClass.DrawAxisFunction(Int32 DisplayWidth, Int32 DisplayHeight)
at TransmissionLine.myGraphClass.DrawAxis(Int32 DisplayWidth, Int32 DisplayHeight)
at TransmissionLine.Form1.DrawGraphAxis()
at TransmissionLine.Form1.SetupGraphs()
at TransmissionLine.Form1.Form1_Load(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.EventHandler.Invoke(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Form.OnLoad(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Form.OnCreateControl()
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.CreateControl(Boolean fIgnoreVisible)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.CreateControl()
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmShowWindow(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Form.WmShowWindow(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)
************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v4.0.30319/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
TransmissionLine
Assembly Version: 3.6.3.5
Win32 Version: 3.6.3.5
CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/Mike/AppData/Local/Apps/2.0/OK54YQ1T.5GM/3V7CJM32.NE7/tran..tion_127a55d62cc03faa_0003.0006_03fd5c6fef0309f2/TransmissionLine.exe
----------------------------------------
Microsoft.VisualBasic
Assembly Version: 10.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 14.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Microsoft.VisualBasic/v4.0_10.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Core
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Runtime.Remoting
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Runtime.Remoting/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Runtime.Remoting.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
Accessibility
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Accessibility/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Accessibility.dll
----------------------------------------
Microsoft.GeneratedCode
Assembly Version: 1.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.6.1590.0 built by: NETFXREL2
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
Doubt Paul's is at 1/3, but pretty close to that. Take his suggestion and run with it, you will not be disappointed.
The difference you see between models is the difference between the software used, nothing more.
Thanks
That's what I plan to do. It just kind of sucks because I like to do this stuff myself. Otherwise, I'd build a kit (which I have done numerous times). The challenge and reward is building my own design.
Hey.
Imagine that you build both designs, do you think you will be able to hear any difference between them? I agree that one plot is smoother than the other, but not by a large margin.
I've modeled a nice design, built it, and then measured it in my listening room. The difference between simulation and measurement is huge, but it still sounds good.
Happy building!
Dyrevennen.
I guess I should have phraised it "why is my LA model with apparently suboptimal placement cleaner than the design from someone that knows what they're doing, which I read as being kind of lumpy". I'm not confident I'm not doing something wrong in the modeling, so it's not accurate.
Does my description of my modeling method look right?
I think your modelling method looks good (but I have limited experience, only built a few designs).
Thanks, that's what I wanted to know. I thought I might be doing something wrong while modeling.
On a different note, The LA software won't open at all suddenly. I just get an unhandled exception has occurred warning, Parameter is not valid.
Any fix for this? I tried restarting to no avail.
It's always been pretty buggy, but is usually opened. This is on a PC Windows 10
Yesterday i downloaded & tried to install, thinking there might be an update
It wouldn't install, & i get a .NET issue ?
This is on a Vista PC
Hope you can fix it
I've had that problem on a couple of occasions. Solution is to update Vista, e.g. .NET framework is out of date.
Because your way has defeated as much as practical any 1/4 WL TL loading on the vent.
Notice that his vent's gain BW extends to ~120 Hz, then its pipe harmonics decay at a faster rate overall than yours with the trade-off being a bit more 'peaky' up high, so seems it requires more damping except that in reality it's not as harsh as this program and Hornresp shows and since acoustic power falls at 1/F, it requires little damping to quell these. Factor in room acoustics and our declining hearing acuity and it becomes moot.
1/4 WL resonators only have odd harmonics, so de facto, these nodes are normally where one wants the driver and to a lesser extent, the vent, so 1st [fundamental, end loaded], 3rds, 5ths, 7ths with these shifting on a sliding scale as it moves to inverse [driver shifts up] or positive [driver shifts down] tapers: Resonances of open air columns
Note that due to pipe end corrections, these points aren't exactly at these points, i.e. 1/5 [0.2] = ~ 0.21, 1/3 [0.33] = ~0.349, 2/5 [0.4] = ~0.42, etc., but inaudible even with no damping in mine and some others experience, so agonizing over which sim is smoothest is a waste of time; and in your case, cheating yourself out of what little 1/4 WL vent damping your design has.
In short, if the [ML]TL doesn't physically either reduce vent length or require a larger vent area for a given alignment Vs a BR when following these 'rules', then performance wise it's just a high aspect ratio BR, so driver location is much more flexible and worst case scenario may require a bit more or less damping than the sim once tuned by ear/whatever in-room.
GM
Thanks GM, I don't completely follow everything that you said, but I think I get the gist. My design isn't all that much of a TL, but instead more like a standard BR making it less critical of driver placement and this is why the response is smoother, but not really better.
Can you please explain how and why my way has defeated the 1/4 WL loading of the vent? Is it because my vent gain doesn't extend as high?
Thanks for taking a look and giving me some real feedback.
You're welcome!
Hmm, I kind of assumed you had already been exposed to MJK's 'must read' documents, so best to spend some quality time with those and combined with the pipe acoustics link you'll have it all: Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design
??? Well, for one, driver location as PK proved. Another is that the sim implied it wasn't very long acoustically to significantly load the vent and why not that many designs posted here and on other sites are just barely at best. Not that this is a bad thing, especially WRT small 'FR' drivers IME as they tend to need more baffle step compensation [BSC] than I prefer/recommend.
Anyway, not knowing the design details nor being a mind reader.........
GM
Hmm, I kind of assumed you had already been exposed to MJK's 'must read' documents, so best to spend some quality time with those and combined with the pipe acoustics link you'll have it all: Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design
??? Well, for one, driver location as PK proved. Another is that the sim implied it wasn't very long acoustically to significantly load the vent and why not that many designs posted here and on other sites are just barely at best. Not that this is a bad thing, especially WRT small 'FR' drivers IME as they tend to need more baffle step compensation [BSC] than I prefer/recommend.
Anyway, not knowing the design details nor being a mind reader.........
GM
Right!
I have been over numerous pages including many of MJK's. Looking at your previous post I guess I understand it more than I realized. I've been a bit mentally frazzled today as my recently upgraded to windows 10 computer is now stuck in a unending boot loop. So now I am setting up a virtual machine on my music only Mac Mini so that I can run my speaker design programs again. That being said, just because I've read those pages, and Bob Brines etc. doesn't mean I fully understand all of it.
I don't see it as Paul proved anything by saying the driver needs to be at 1/3. He just said it, but when I model it it doesn't look all they great to me. I am more than willing to admit that he knows more than me and that I probably don't know what a good response looks like. I know that conventional wisdom is to place the driver between 1/5 and 1/3 of the way from the beginning of the line, but in my modeling, the port resonance between 100-200Hz looks poorly handled. I'm guessing from your statement that LA and Hornresp make it look worse than it sounds and that I shouldn't be all that worried about that..... so what should I be worried about when modeling? What am I looking for?
The driver is the SB23NRX 8". the enclosure is about 50L and the line is about 60" . S0 and SL are 51"sq The speaker is a three-way that'll be crossed around 300-500Hz. This is all for an ML-TL. I also have played with an ML-TQWT that I thought looked pretty good too, but apparently not.
Thanks
I have been over numerous pages including many of MJK's. Looking at your previous post I guess I understand it more than I realized. I've been a bit mentally frazzled today as my recently upgraded to windows 10 computer is now stuck in a unending boot loop. So now I am setting up a virtual machine on my music only Mac Mini so that I can run my speaker design programs again. That being said, just because I've read those pages, and Bob Brines etc. doesn't mean I fully understand all of it.
I don't see it as Paul proved anything by saying the driver needs to be at 1/3. He just said it, but when I model it it doesn't look all they great to me. I am more than willing to admit that he knows more than me and that I probably don't know what a good response looks like. I know that conventional wisdom is to place the driver between 1/5 and 1/3 of the way from the beginning of the line, but in my modeling, the port resonance between 100-200Hz looks poorly handled. I'm guessing from your statement that LA and Hornresp make it look worse than it sounds and that I shouldn't be all that worried about that..... so what should I be worried about when modeling? What am I looking for?
The driver is the SB23NRX 8". the enclosure is about 50L and the line is about 60" . S0 and SL are 51"sq The speaker is a three-way that'll be crossed around 300-500Hz. This is all for an ML-TL. I also have played with an ML-TQWT that I thought looked pretty good too, but apparently not.
Thanks
Does anybody have any experience running the Leonard Audio software on a Mac under a virtual machine running Windows 10? Windows installer and Net Framework 4 are already installed as part of the OS, but I get a message that it can't be installed.
My Windows machine took a dump due to mandatory Microsoft updates.
Thanks
My Windows machine took a dump due to mandatory Microsoft updates.
Thanks