Hi All,
after reading a lot on the different ways there are to clean up your ac power I found an article on "balanced ac power" at http://www.equitech.com/articles/enigma.html
After reading some more on this subject I decided to give it a try. I took a while to find a 1000VA torroid (I love EBAY!) for reasonable money (230 prim, 2 x 115V sec).
It was installed in a wooden enclosure with a dc filter in front to keep the mechanical hum a bit down and connected between wall outlet and equipment.
The effect on the sound was everything but subtle.
A lot more details areheard on familiar records, room information is much more precise and everything sounds a lot smoother without loosing pace and rythm.
This is with an Aleph5 dissipating 340watts so I don´t know how it will sound with amps that need instant current out of the wall, I´ll try this later.
Only two things were not so good:
First the torroid was humming along (a lot louder than the fans in my Aleph)
Second when I plugged in the transformer of my Perpetual P3-A the torroids in the Aleph started humming............
The second problem was solved by running the P3-A directly out of the wall, the first could only be solved by a new transformer. After looking around a bit I decided to order an EI-Transformer with around 1600VA. This was changed a bit by the factory to reduce humm (less induction, vacuum drenched).
This solved problem 1 (no humm to speak of anymore) but not problem 2. I even tried an extra filter between P3-A and the transformer but this also didn´t help.
Next I will change the transformer for the P3-a wich was due anyway.
I took a few pictures of the second transformer plus enclosure. Of the six outlets 4 are balanced with one of those for filtered (CD/ DA). The other two are straight through.
First picture is from above without the top:
after reading a lot on the different ways there are to clean up your ac power I found an article on "balanced ac power" at http://www.equitech.com/articles/enigma.html
After reading some more on this subject I decided to give it a try. I took a while to find a 1000VA torroid (I love EBAY!) for reasonable money (230 prim, 2 x 115V sec).
It was installed in a wooden enclosure with a dc filter in front to keep the mechanical hum a bit down and connected between wall outlet and equipment.
The effect on the sound was everything but subtle.
A lot more details areheard on familiar records, room information is much more precise and everything sounds a lot smoother without loosing pace and rythm.
This is with an Aleph5 dissipating 340watts so I don´t know how it will sound with amps that need instant current out of the wall, I´ll try this later.
Only two things were not so good:
First the torroid was humming along (a lot louder than the fans in my Aleph)
Second when I plugged in the transformer of my Perpetual P3-A the torroids in the Aleph started humming............
The second problem was solved by running the P3-A directly out of the wall, the first could only be solved by a new transformer. After looking around a bit I decided to order an EI-Transformer with around 1600VA. This was changed a bit by the factory to reduce humm (less induction, vacuum drenched).
This solved problem 1 (no humm to speak of anymore) but not problem 2. I even tried an extra filter between P3-A and the transformer but this also didn´t help.
Next I will change the transformer for the P3-a wich was due anyway.
I took a few pictures of the second transformer plus enclosure. Of the six outlets 4 are balanced with one of those for filtered (CD/ DA). The other two are straight through.
First picture is from above without the top:
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I also did a balanced power supply, more of neccessity than the actual desire.
But it came out nicely and works better than a regular isolation transformer. Depending on mains condition it may be an improvement, but not neccessarily. You can read about it here:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/240_117/240_117.html
But it came out nicely and works better than a regular isolation transformer. Depending on mains condition it may be an improvement, but not neccessarily. You can read about it here:http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/240_117/240_117.html
Banned
Joined 2002
Peter Daniel said:I also did a balanced power supply, more of neccessity than the actual desire.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/240_117/240_117.html
Peter have yuo ever done a 115> 115 Isolation transfomer for amplifiers ? Are they worth it. Kinda like how monser does the ac line level conditioner. Are those devices actually worth it ? ( The monster cable ones )
Jase
Listening to the one I just did, and from what I hear from other people, a regular isolation transformer is usually degrading (unless your mains are really bad). However, when configured for balanced power operation, I noticed certain advantages, although also slight veiling. Overall, it all depends on the quality of AC line, mine is pretty good.
I'm not familiar with Monster Cable products.
I'm not familiar with Monster Cable products.
Banned
Joined 2002
I'm using, right now..listening through a 500lb 30KVA AC balancing transformer.
I bought it off fleabay for $300.00 Just gotta know what to buy. No current limitations (which would be like an EQ curve, as it mars transient delivery, so the ear hears it as an 'eq') on that puppy. Brutal.
Shipping was a killer, though.
I bought it off fleabay for $300.00 Just gotta know what to buy. No current limitations (which would be like an EQ curve, as it mars transient delivery, so the ear hears it as an 'eq') on that puppy. Brutal.
Shipping was a killer, though.
Banned
Joined 2002
Hi,
re: the dual pole mains power supply available in the US (and Canada?)
Is it two phases that are 180 degrees apart?
or is it two phases of a three phase system? just 120degrees apart?
Does it's installation involve the power company putting a two phase meter into every house?
Do any consumers wire out their whole house to use the two pole supply?
re: the dual pole mains power supply available in the US (and Canada?)
Is it two phases that are 180 degrees apart?
or is it two phases of a three phase system? just 120degrees apart?
Does it's installation involve the power company putting a two phase meter into every house?
Do any consumers wire out their whole house to use the two pole supply?
Its ~240VCT. 2 120V hots 180* apart. Single split phase. Maybe its 115 nominal, but I havent seen it under 120V anywhere around here.
If nothing else it likely violates code.
If you want isolated low impedance balanced power and lots of it cheap, ignore that silly monster stuff and get an industrial transformer as KBK did. The main thing is to find one you can go pick up if possible, I hate paying more for shipping than purchase.
Something along these lines.
If nothing else it likely violates code.
If you want isolated low impedance balanced power and lots of it cheap, ignore that silly monster stuff and get an industrial transformer as KBK did. The main thing is to find one you can go pick up if possible, I hate paying more for shipping than purchase.
Something along these lines.
Hi Tweeker,
thanks for that link to "split phase 3wire systems".
Even though it is known as a "3-wire, single-phase, mid-point neutral system", it appears from reading it that it is actually a two phase system. Am I correct? The phases are each 120Vac away from neutral and 180degrees apart giving an effective 240Vac across the two line wires.
Do all houses have the isolating transformer that generates the split phase power lines?
thanks for that link to "split phase 3wire systems".
Even though it is known as a "3-wire, single-phase, mid-point neutral system", it appears from reading it that it is actually a two phase system. Am I correct? The phases are each 120Vac away from neutral and 180degrees apart giving an effective 240Vac across the two line wires.
Do all houses have the isolating transformer that generates the split phase power lines?
fleabay link to what I mean. I've been keeping an eye on this puppy, in case I need it. For a month now.
Due to the fact that you will be mis-applying it compared to it's usual orientation, you MUST de-rate it by 50% in it's VA rating. Why? The wiring is VxA rated..and you will be mis-applying the V part on the outputsection....but the current (A) limt if the wiring remains intact. Thus..de-rating by 50%.
You can put about 10-15% on top of that 50% de-rating, though, but don't ever say I said that.
This is because the VA rating of the 120/240-120/240 shielded isloation transformer ALSO includes 'thermal mass' as part of the calculation. Not just current and voltage issues.
For example, if you had a 120/240-120/240 5kva isolation transformer, you would have to de-rate it to 2.5kva, if re-wired to use it as a 'balancing AC' transformer. Then, add about 10-15% of the 2.5KVA (about 2.8KVA total after calc) rating back on to the calculation of how much it can handle. Try to keep the value as 'peak' VA draw, otherwise you will get 'rounding' of your audio 'sound' signature'. You will be transient current draw limited, and the overall character will be 'soft' bass.
I went for a approximate 10-to-1 over my total continuous (peakish) VA draw, as a number. CRITICAL to remember that part. this means unless you drive min-stereo's, you will get 'rounding' of the sound with 5kva as an intital starting point.
EG:with anything rated at over 100 watts per channel, and not too loud-that's a class AB amp, NOT class A, which would be ridiculous power draw in comparison..hey!...might work out better...remember..it's the TRANSIENT current draw that becomes the issue.
My particular unit is rated at 30KVA as a AC balancing transformer, due to the fact that it was WAY overbuilt. Yes, the tranny itself weighs in at about 450-500lbs or so. It is made by 'Controlled Power', ot of Troy, MI. It was originally a 700 series power conditioner, but I removed all the line conditioning crap and rewired the tranny as a AC balancing transformer.
Anyone got any use for about 7 dual diode 100+ amp SCR's???(gate controlled dual diode packs)
I would consider that a 10KVA rated isolation transformer, re-wired as a balanced AC transformer is the MIN. spec for a 100 watt per channel minimalist (three pieces) system. Psyhco acoustics says that the micro-limiting of the transient current draw notably 'colors the sound' with anything less than that as a ratio of current draw vs. overall stereo system current required.
Due to the fact that you will be mis-applying it compared to it's usual orientation, you MUST de-rate it by 50% in it's VA rating. Why? The wiring is VxA rated..and you will be mis-applying the V part on the outputsection....but the current (A) limt if the wiring remains intact. Thus..de-rating by 50%.
You can put about 10-15% on top of that 50% de-rating, though, but don't ever say I said that.
This is because the VA rating of the 120/240-120/240 shielded isloation transformer ALSO includes 'thermal mass' as part of the calculation. Not just current and voltage issues.
For example, if you had a 120/240-120/240 5kva isolation transformer, you would have to de-rate it to 2.5kva, if re-wired to use it as a 'balancing AC' transformer. Then, add about 10-15% of the 2.5KVA (about 2.8KVA total after calc) rating back on to the calculation of how much it can handle. Try to keep the value as 'peak' VA draw, otherwise you will get 'rounding' of your audio 'sound' signature'. You will be transient current draw limited, and the overall character will be 'soft' bass.
I went for a approximate 10-to-1 over my total continuous (peakish) VA draw, as a number. CRITICAL to remember that part. this means unless you drive min-stereo's, you will get 'rounding' of the sound with 5kva as an intital starting point.
EG:with anything rated at over 100 watts per channel, and not too loud-that's a class AB amp, NOT class A, which would be ridiculous power draw in comparison..hey!...might work out better...remember..it's the TRANSIENT current draw that becomes the issue.
My particular unit is rated at 30KVA as a AC balancing transformer, due to the fact that it was WAY overbuilt. Yes, the tranny itself weighs in at about 450-500lbs or so. It is made by 'Controlled Power', ot of Troy, MI. It was originally a 700 series power conditioner, but I removed all the line conditioning crap and rewired the tranny as a AC balancing transformer.
Anyone got any use for about 7 dual diode 100+ amp SCR's???(gate controlled dual diode packs)
I would consider that a 10KVA rated isolation transformer, re-wired as a balanced AC transformer is the MIN. spec for a 100 watt per channel minimalist (three pieces) system. Psyhco acoustics says that the micro-limiting of the transient current draw notably 'colors the sound' with anything less than that as a ratio of current draw vs. overall stereo system current required.
There is another side to having 2 x 120V AC lines. One apparently "sounds" better and is generally preferred for audio.
I was recently experimenting with that, and indeed, connecting equipment to specific tap of 240V gives better results:
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1177
I was recently experimenting with that, and indeed, connecting equipment to specific tap of 240V gives better results:
http://www.goodsoundclub.com/Forums/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1177
On the equipment end, there are two dual receptacles, each connected to opposite phase. I just switch power cords to compare. One of them is definitely better sounding.
What's interesting, I tried to rewire the other line to have the same polarity as the "better sounding" one, so I would had two separate lines, same phase run directly from a fuse panel. For some reason, it didn't sound as good as having all equipment (amps and sources) connected to a single outlet.
What's interesting, I tried to rewire the other line to have the same polarity as the "better sounding" one, so I would had two separate lines, same phase run directly from a fuse panel. For some reason, it didn't sound as good as having all equipment (amps and sources) connected to a single outlet.
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