Hello everybody reading this,
I've left my 3-way super-floorstander with quad built-in subwoofers behind because they were too difficult to get to perfection and did, even though they would have had QUAD 8" ultimax subs built in, not even get close to real good sub-bass which was the entire point of those speakers.
So now I'm building, still very beefy, 2-way bookshelfs.
I want them to have round sides and a rounded front panel, kinda like the B&W 805 D3. and because I obviously still need a flat surface to mount the drivers to I'm gonna use a short aluminum tube to which they can be mounted, also kinda like the B&Ws. I'm not copying them because I don't like copies because when you translate the word "copy" to what-people-think-ish you get "an ugly knok-off for people who can't afford the real deal, I just really like the looks of them.
Designing the enclosure I bumped on a couple of issues with mounting the aluminum parts to the inside of the enclosure. I wanted to make the aluminum tubes with an edge with screw holes in them at the end of the tube but of course that edge would be larger then the tube itself so it wouldn't fit thru the hole in which it would be mounted.
Then I came on the idea to make an entire-metal enclosure build by piling up thicc layers of metal made using a water cutter and mill. This would allow to have the edge built-in the front panel and of course, as I think at least, an ultra stiff, and pretty heavy enclosure which would make for even more accurate bass because of the ultra-stiffnes and by weight reduced rocking and extra crisp highs because the hard surface will make all of the energy from the tweeter transfer into sound in stead of being absorbed by the enclosure.
So to wrap it all up, do you think making an metal enclosure truly is as good of an idea as I think it is or that there won't be any advantage over an MDF enclosure? And in case metal will be the better choice, do you think aluminum is a good choice or that there are better metals to use. Please say aluminum is a good one because I understand that titanium will be the best but I'm not planning to spend half a billion on the enclosure, and I don't really want steel either because that would, even for someone like me who has a zero-compromise-mind, get way to heavy, we're talking about a 25x35x45 cm with an inch thick panels and since they're still bookshelfs I want them to put them on stands.
As mentioned above the original design had 1" thick panels, can I keep it that way or do you think a thinner panel with internal bracing will be better?
the drivers are:
-Dayton Audio ES180Ti-8
-Fountek NeoX1.0 or Scan SpeaknR3004/6020.10 (haven't decided yet, a little help here would also be nice)
would like to see you're suggestions.
I've left my 3-way super-floorstander with quad built-in subwoofers behind because they were too difficult to get to perfection and did, even though they would have had QUAD 8" ultimax subs built in, not even get close to real good sub-bass which was the entire point of those speakers.
So now I'm building, still very beefy, 2-way bookshelfs.
I want them to have round sides and a rounded front panel, kinda like the B&W 805 D3. and because I obviously still need a flat surface to mount the drivers to I'm gonna use a short aluminum tube to which they can be mounted, also kinda like the B&Ws. I'm not copying them because I don't like copies because when you translate the word "copy" to what-people-think-ish you get "an ugly knok-off for people who can't afford the real deal, I just really like the looks of them.
Designing the enclosure I bumped on a couple of issues with mounting the aluminum parts to the inside of the enclosure. I wanted to make the aluminum tubes with an edge with screw holes in them at the end of the tube but of course that edge would be larger then the tube itself so it wouldn't fit thru the hole in which it would be mounted.
Then I came on the idea to make an entire-metal enclosure build by piling up thicc layers of metal made using a water cutter and mill. This would allow to have the edge built-in the front panel and of course, as I think at least, an ultra stiff, and pretty heavy enclosure which would make for even more accurate bass because of the ultra-stiffnes and by weight reduced rocking and extra crisp highs because the hard surface will make all of the energy from the tweeter transfer into sound in stead of being absorbed by the enclosure.
So to wrap it all up, do you think making an metal enclosure truly is as good of an idea as I think it is or that there won't be any advantage over an MDF enclosure? And in case metal will be the better choice, do you think aluminum is a good choice or that there are better metals to use. Please say aluminum is a good one because I understand that titanium will be the best but I'm not planning to spend half a billion on the enclosure, and I don't really want steel either because that would, even for someone like me who has a zero-compromise-mind, get way to heavy, we're talking about a 25x35x45 cm with an inch thick panels and since they're still bookshelfs I want them to put them on stands.
As mentioned above the original design had 1" thick panels, can I keep it that way or do you think a thinner panel with internal bracing will be better?
the drivers are:
-Dayton Audio ES180Ti-8
-Fountek NeoX1.0 or Scan SpeaknR3004/6020.10 (haven't decided yet, a little help here would also be nice)
would like to see you're suggestions.
Did you use bass EQ?
That sounds fun, but aluminum is expensive! Especially if you use billet. Would be worthwhile to check the prices.
Even fully aluminum enclosures need some sort of internal bracing though. Make sure you include that in your calculations.
You could also do a hybrid approach, limiting the aluminum to the front baffle and have that CNC'd.
Best,
E
That sounds fun, but aluminum is expensive! Especially if you use billet. Would be worthwhile to check the prices.
Even fully aluminum enclosures need some sort of internal bracing though. Make sure you include that in your calculations.
You could also do a hybrid approach, limiting the aluminum to the front baffle and have that CNC'd.
Best,
E
If you have a good enclosure design and you really want to use metal then .25 aluminum lined with butyl + foam, or something like no rez, should give you a stiff non resonant enclosure. Decoupling the drivers from the mounting baffle should help a lot too. On the other hand an aluminum baffle to a wood enclosure can work nice too.
I’m only a 15 y/o but the enclosure design is seriously good, maybe even amazing. This project started out about 1-1/2 year ago and since I have continuously been learning about, designing and working with speakers and it has already become a, maybe a little to extreme of an obsession.
But to come back to business, isn’t 1/4” a little thin? And what do you mean with “lined with butyl + foam”? What’s butyl, what kind of foam and what do you mean with lining? Probably a stupid question but I’m from the Netherlands and my English is good but not that good ����*♂️.
But to come back to business, isn’t 1/4” a little thin? And what do you mean with “lined with butyl + foam”? What’s butyl, what kind of foam and what do you mean with lining? Probably a stupid question but I’m from the Netherlands and my English is good but not that good ����*♂️.
I used this: 0.1mm of aluminum and 1.9mm of anti-rumor butyle, for cars.
the sound becomes more precise, more defined, but also more tiring.
no doubt. I used polyurethane foam on the walls and polyester fibers to fill the empty space.
- ABX Alubutyl"
the sound becomes more precise, more defined, but also more tiring.
no doubt. I used polyurethane foam on the walls and polyester fibers to fill the empty space.
- ABX Alubutyl"
Keep in mind that all things resonate. The audibility of the enclosure resonance is affected by the resonance frequency as well as the damping. Choice of material and dimensions will affect both factors.
If you make your baffle from metal, you will have selected a material with very limited damping (prone to ringing). This will make it necessary to add weight (thick baffle) and/or damping (bracing).
One factor that limits the thickness of the baffle to some degree is the need for the woofer to breathe. You do not want to have the woofer placed in a "tube", since this will cause a buildup of pressure behind the cone. This is why practically all good designs include a chamfering of the baffle around the woofer.
Tweeter performance not be affected by the material of the baffle (comparing metal and MDF). A baffle lined with felt or some other absorbent material will however affect diffraction.
Personally, I would not bother with an aluminium baffle for a large speaker unless purely for reasons of visual apperance. And if I would use aluminium, I would machine the baffle from something like 10mm (~1/2") sheet and glue it to a thicker MDF baffle.
If you make your baffle from metal, you will have selected a material with very limited damping (prone to ringing). This will make it necessary to add weight (thick baffle) and/or damping (bracing).
One factor that limits the thickness of the baffle to some degree is the need for the woofer to breathe. You do not want to have the woofer placed in a "tube", since this will cause a buildup of pressure behind the cone. This is why practically all good designs include a chamfering of the baffle around the woofer.
Tweeter performance not be affected by the material of the baffle (comparing metal and MDF). A baffle lined with felt or some other absorbent material will however affect diffraction.
Personally, I would not bother with an aluminium baffle for a large speaker unless purely for reasons of visual apperance. And if I would use aluminium, I would machine the baffle from something like 10mm (~1/2") sheet and glue it to a thicker MDF baffle.
The butyl material is for dampening the enclosure resonance. The open cell foam material is for dampening out internal reflections from the speaker back wave. If you are making a sealed enclosure you can also add stuffing, hollow fiber dacron or other loose fiber material, just be sure it isn't too close to the back of the drivers.
thanks for the good explanation.
I always have and will use dampening in my enclosures, it always makes things better.
I understand what you're saying about the woofer needing to breath and maybe "tube" is the wrong word because it sounds like the driver is in a tunnel going all the way from on to the other side of the enclosure but actually it's rather a ring than a tube, it's less than just 3 cm behind the driver and I will round the edges, also something you do often in my enclosures because it encourages airflow and discourages noise.
It's not clear what you mean when you say "piling up thick layers of metal". Do you mean stacking up layers to form the cabinet, usually referred as to as 'translam' ? Like Magico did with their original 2-way Mini, but with metal instead of plywood? If so I would say not a very good idea. The method wastes a lot of material and is incredibly time consuming. So, very expensive. Even Magico never tried to do that. On the other hand, 1/2" damped aluminum for the front baffles can work excellently.
Maybe also look at Magico for another method of driver attachment when using a curved front baffle. They use a double front baffle system separated by a vibration absorbing material with the tweeter and maybe the mid rear mounted to the first baffle and the woofers (and maybe the mid) front mounted to the 2nd baffle. Elegant as well as great engineering.
Maybe also look at Magico for another method of driver attachment when using a curved front baffle. They use a double front baffle system separated by a vibration absorbing material with the tweeter and maybe the mid rear mounted to the first baffle and the woofers (and maybe the mid) front mounted to the 2nd baffle. Elegant as well as great engineering.
By "lining" what I meant was attaching the butyl sheet directly to the inner wall of the speaker. You can try it with a small piece of metal, tap it and hear the ringing, then cover one side with butyl and tap it again, no ringing. The foam serves a different purpose. It should be open cell or a foam you can breath through. This serves the purpose of minimizing the back wave sound so it doesn't return as a delayed sound through the speaker cone and thus smearing and distorting the clarity of music. There are a lot of other considerations to deal with as well. I'd highly recommend reading this - But you want to design your own loudspeaker The conversation with Fritz is a real treasure trove of information about speaker design and much more. Finally I want to say I think it's fantastic you are 15 and have the ambition to build your own world class speaker. Wishing you great success.
Again the butyl is for dampening the enclosure. The open cell foam should be attached to the butyl and the open cell foam will cut the reflections. You attached the foam with glue. If you don't want to bother making your own you could just buy some NoRez, it does exactly the same thing and would be easier as long as your budget allows it. The combination with your aluminum enclosure will give you a very rigid and dead enclosure. By the way you can also find 6 inch wide 10 ft long rolls of butyl with one side sticky that are used in weather stripping garage doors and such. I just bought some at Home Depot for $5
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