OK,I have a Technics 1200 with an Ortofon red cart, Homemade valve Riaa Preamp, Digital Ipod source and a leak Troughline iii. Through a Leak Stereo 20 with ALL new high end components and KEF speakers (the race track woofer ones)
My problem, the sources sound good in the reverse order i have listed them.
The Radio sounds awesome. full, rich warm and well balanced
The IPOD isnt to bad either, bit "plastic" but nice
The turntable sounds like there is a bit missing. Especially in the bottom end. I cant explain it better than it doesnt sound "Live" like the others do.Especially the radio,which is baffling as its pretty old school.
Whats the deal? It should be the other way round!
Before you reply. I have accurate RIAA. I have even tried compensating for my taste
My wife has good ears (much better than mine). She agrees
Please dont just knock the 1200, its well set up.
I wish i could listen to something to compare my vinyl setup. I really love the vinyl "Thing" and have huge collection, but reality can only be ignored for so long
about to cry......
My problem, the sources sound good in the reverse order i have listed them.
The Radio sounds awesome. full, rich warm and well balanced
The IPOD isnt to bad either, bit "plastic" but nice
The turntable sounds like there is a bit missing. Especially in the bottom end. I cant explain it better than it doesnt sound "Live" like the others do.Especially the radio,which is baffling as its pretty old school.
Whats the deal? It should be the other way round!
Before you reply. I have accurate RIAA. I have even tried compensating for my taste
My wife has good ears (much better than mine). She agrees
Please dont just knock the 1200, its well set up.
I wish i could listen to something to compare my vinyl setup. I really love the vinyl "Thing" and have huge collection, but reality can only be ignored for so long
about to cry......
yeah, I've been listening Schostakovic N.4 Symphony from the radio yesterday, great composition!
You wanna know the system ? Sharp lo-fi combo stripped down, just the radio, electronic volume( horrorful tone presets off ! )and 36 V ( it was 26
) chip amp with old Philips output caps .
The speakers, which I usually suspend, are the new generation 15"+6"+1"+0,75" CD+horn, all OB , frameless with acoustical dampening on the rear .
Sounds horrible
You wanna know the system ? Sharp lo-fi combo stripped down, just the radio, electronic volume( horrorful tone presets off ! )and 36 V ( it was 26
) chip amp with old Philips output caps .The speakers, which I usually suspend, are the new generation 15"+6"+1"+0,75" CD+horn, all OB , frameless with acoustical dampening on the rear .
Sounds horrible
I have a 1972 Micro TT which weights 20 Kg ! ( 711 I think...the model)
As I told you, I stripped down the Sharp combo...why ? because i hate plastic!
It stinks! I can live with the one surrounding the caps, thou
Also because of the strange resonances that plastic brings...
But...it's the system!
Before complaining, you should make a comparison with something asreference. It could be a cheap integrated amp with IC based phono.
The usual suspects are the old circuitations that usually cut below 100 Hz.
As I told you, I stripped down the Sharp combo...why ? because i hate plastic!
It stinks! I can live with the one surrounding the caps, thou
Also because of the strange resonances that plastic brings...
But...it's the system!
Before complaining, you should make a comparison with something asreference. It could be a cheap integrated amp with IC based phono.
The usual suspects are the old circuitations that usually cut below 100 Hz.
yeah, I've been listening Schostakovic N.4 Symphony from the radio yesterday, great composition!
You wanna know the system ? Sharp lo-fi combo stripped down, just the radio, electronic volume( horrorful tone presets off ! )and 36 V ( it was 26
The speakers, which I usually suspend, are the new generation 15"+6"+1"+0,75" CD+horn, all OB , frameless with acoustical dampening on the rear .
Sounds horrible
I know it is OT, but do you have a picture of these speakers somewhere?
many thanks, Erik
Hello Bullpeters!
I too once used a Stereo 20 at the heart of my system, plus a Troughline, plus a Technics SP10 and I even had those KEF speakers at one point. So I feel for you, and I've been there. The difference was, that was in the 1970s. A LOT of upgrades came after that, so think positively and look forward to making your system better. First thing - you're proud of the RIAA stage you built, and rightly so. I remember building my first RIAA stage, the "Last PAS" Dynaco type. I was chuffed to bits and ran the heaters off a car battery. But you may have to be brutal about upgrading. In theory you could upgrade everything, so nothing's sacred. Use your skills to make some positive changes.
Where to start? The amp and speakers sound good with the Troughline so leave those for now, though I could go on at length about modding a Stereo 20. The results you're getting point to the RIAA stage plus turntable. I'm not an expert in these things, so I'll leave those to others.
What I will pick up on is the digital input. I sold my entire record collection (2,500+) and went digital and I'm happy with it. You could improve this a LOT for not much money. I keep ALL my source material on my Mac Mini computer, which allows me to switch between the Internet and iTunes at will. I use Audirvana+ as software, and this is by far the best. I've tried Pure Music and Amarra and done several A-B comparisons. I use a Mac so if you use a PC you need an equivalent programme. Audirvana+ is cheap enough and I can't recommend it enough. You then need a good DAC. Plenty to choose from, and a popular one these days is the O-DAC. It runs off USB
JDS Labs - ODAC (ObjectiveDAC)
This should hugely improve your digital front end. You will also need to be using a lossless format like AIFF or FLAC. You won't get far into high-fi with mp3.
That would be a start, and should give you something as good as your Troughline.
I too once used a Stereo 20 at the heart of my system, plus a Troughline, plus a Technics SP10 and I even had those KEF speakers at one point. So I feel for you, and I've been there. The difference was, that was in the 1970s. A LOT of upgrades came after that, so think positively and look forward to making your system better. First thing - you're proud of the RIAA stage you built, and rightly so. I remember building my first RIAA stage, the "Last PAS" Dynaco type. I was chuffed to bits and ran the heaters off a car battery. But you may have to be brutal about upgrading. In theory you could upgrade everything, so nothing's sacred. Use your skills to make some positive changes.
Where to start? The amp and speakers sound good with the Troughline so leave those for now, though I could go on at length about modding a Stereo 20. The results you're getting point to the RIAA stage plus turntable. I'm not an expert in these things, so I'll leave those to others.
What I will pick up on is the digital input. I sold my entire record collection (2,500+) and went digital and I'm happy with it. You could improve this a LOT for not much money. I keep ALL my source material on my Mac Mini computer, which allows me to switch between the Internet and iTunes at will. I use Audirvana+ as software, and this is by far the best. I've tried Pure Music and Amarra and done several A-B comparisons. I use a Mac so if you use a PC you need an equivalent programme. Audirvana+ is cheap enough and I can't recommend it enough. You then need a good DAC. Plenty to choose from, and a popular one these days is the O-DAC. It runs off USB
JDS Labs - ODAC (ObjectiveDAC)
This should hugely improve your digital front end. You will also need to be using a lossless format like AIFF or FLAC. You won't get far into high-fi with mp3.
That would be a start, and should give you something as good as your Troughline.
ANDYJEVANS,thanks. some input. Thanks
Building the morgan jones Bevoius Valley amp with parralell el84. Hoping to get some more power. I have also thought about the Mini Mac option. I am not against digital music, but my main question is
Why is my Vinyl setup so disapointing? U couldnt get the pre amp for less than 1500 bucks! Its the ducks nuts. The TT is solid, The cart has been positively reviewed but its not making me happy. anyone? beuller? beuller?
Building the morgan jones Bevoius Valley amp with parralell el84. Hoping to get some more power. I have also thought about the Mini Mac option. I am not against digital music, but my main question is
Why is my Vinyl setup so disapointing? U couldnt get the pre amp for less than 1500 bucks! Its the ducks nuts. The TT is solid, The cart has been positively reviewed but its not making me happy. anyone? beuller? beuller?
I will when I am able. However it's a 12ax7 preamp. It's built with the tetra board. I have checked and its RIAA accurate. Short leads from TT and amp. I also have a SS battery powered per amp. No real difference. Got to be something else. Maybe the arm, the plinth? The cart gets good reviews
I am glad with the subjective comments of the thread starter. I'v had this same experience during a number of phases in my audio-history and never understood them well. In the seventies I had several tuners with which I have heard live broadcasts that were unbelievable good. I had Stanton 681EEE element in my turntable and when listening to a decent station on FM I very often could not help thinking that this was way better than the phono. I even went so far as to write to the station to ask which cartridge they used in the studio (Shure M75 and dozens of filters en limiters!).
And strange enough this effect seems to repeat itself in internet streaming radio. I listen to mp3-streams that can not be better than my own cd's, but nevertheless I enjoy them more.
I know of some amplifiers that deliberately use some treble-tailoring to sound more easy on the ears. Maybe it's an illusion to think that the most 'straight' amp or source is the most pleasing to the ears. But this is the end of high-end?
And strange enough this effect seems to repeat itself in internet streaming radio. I listen to mp3-streams that can not be better than my own cd's, but nevertheless I enjoy them more.
I know of some amplifiers that deliberately use some treble-tailoring to sound more easy on the ears. Maybe it's an illusion to think that the most 'straight' amp or source is the most pleasing to the ears. But this is the end of high-end?
Hi-fi is about the closest approach to the original sound.rmgvs said:
High-end can be about taking money off the gullible, who then actually brag to their friends about how easy it is to take money off them! People sometimes assume that high-end is the excellent end of hi-fi; it is often just the expensive end of audio.
The "mid-end" is where all the excellence is.
WTF? http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/231948-troughline-stereo-20-technics-1200-unhappy.html
jeff
Last edited:
The system needs to be heard to come to any meaningful conclusion as to what may be astray.The Troughline tuner like all r.f. equipment of that era could be out of alignment and the de-emphasis cct could be wrong as has already been suggested.Perhaps other front end components could be substituted; certainly another pre-amp for a start and for interest,how do C.D's perform in comparision?
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.