I know that this has gotton a lot publicity through the years, but people, on occation - do change their believes.
So which do you prefer...? - I'm planning a sommer build and cant quite decide...
Candidates are Community M200, Faital M5N12-80, P Audio WN 520N.
The two cones go a little lower though.. I'm mating the midrange with a frontloaded 15"
So which do you prefer...? - I'm planning a sommer build and cant quite decide...
Candidates are Community M200, Faital M5N12-80, P Audio WN 520N.
The two cones go a little lower though.. I'm mating the midrange with a frontloaded 15"
What do you consider midrange?? Where do you want to crossover?? I have a couple of horn/waveguide systems. I really like the JBL 10's like the 2122 or 2123. They run from about 250-300 up too about 1.5K in the two systems I use them in. They sound great the only issue can be the 1.5K crossover point in you want to stay away from there with a crossover.
My other system uses a 3" compression driver crossed over at about 750hz and then at 8K to a UHF driver. Another really nice sounding system but with the woofer covering the lower midrange.
You have to name your poison as far as where you want the crossover points to be. As long as the crossovers are well implimented either way will work.
Rob
My other system uses a 3" compression driver crossed over at about 750hz and then at 8K to a UHF driver. Another really nice sounding system but with the woofer covering the lower midrange.
You have to name your poison as far as where you want the crossover points to be. As long as the crossovers are well implimented either way will work.
Rob
20+ years ago I ran Edgar's 100Hz horn/2220Hz with a 250Hz tractrix/LE5 - 2220H was good for around 500Hz - the harmonic plot was for the K43 clone - 2220 was about 10dB worse in distortion
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
What do you consider midrange?? Where do you want to crossover?? I have a couple of horn/waveguide systems. I really like the JBL 10's like the 2122 or 2123. They run from about 250-300 up too about 1.5K in the two systems I use them in. They sound great the only issue can be the 1.5K crossover point in you want to stay away from there with a crossover.
My other system uses a 3" compression driver crossed over at about 750hz and then at 8K to a UHF driver. Another really nice sounding system but with the woofer covering the lower midrange.
You have to name your poison as far as where you want the crossover points to be. As long as the crossovers are well implimented either way will work.
Rob
Hi Robh3606,
May I ask what horn you have used for the JBL 2123?
Thanks!
Best regards
Peter
What do you consider midrange?? Where do you want to crossover?? I have a couple of horn/waveguide systems. I really like the JBL 10's like the 2122 or 2123. They run from about 250-300 up too about 1.5K in the two systems I use them in. They sound great the only issue can be the 1.5K crossover point in you want to stay away from there with a crossover.
My other system uses a 3" compression driver crossed over at about 750hz and then at 8K to a UHF driver. Another really nice sounding system but with the woofer covering the lower midrange.
You have to name your poison as far as where you want the crossover points to be. As long as the crossovers are well implimented either way will work.
Rob
The crossover depends on wheter I'm using the cones or compression drivers. If cones I will cross them <300 - compression drivers >400.
I thougt about building a direct rediator high eff. system I've just convinced myself that horns introduce the lowest distortion and greates dynamic range - only REAL setbacks are coloration.
Crossover will be taken care of by my Deqx processor..
In the system I use them in they are direct radiators. I have never horn loaded them
Rob
Hi robh3606,
Thanks for your reply!
Best regards
Peter
Ps. don't know if you're looking for a particular size midrange if the choice is going to be cone, in the 6.5" category, the 18sound 6ND430 is a VERY nice option. You can buy one from +-85 Euro onward.
It features in this Zaph grouptest. (Including some measurements )
It features in this Zaph grouptest. (Including some measurements
)
All of the suggested cone drivers so far (except maybe the JBL 2123H) can't keep up with the JBL's 101 dB SPL, so if you are not bi-amping this arrangement, you pretty much need to consider a horn and a compression driver.
You could horn load a midrange cone driver as an alternative. I'll let others chime in on the logistics of that.
You could horn load a midrange cone driver as an alternative. I'll let others chime in on the logistics of that.
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My 2 cents worth says that all depends on what you are trying to acheive, at what level of "perfection" and in what budget, and what your abilities in terms of construction and design are already??
Fwiw the older Edgar horns were somewhat flawed... if you want better horns there are some right here on Diy...
My personal philosophy on this is that it is a very positive design goal to avoid any xovers between <~250 and >~3kHz. (a greater spread being better) if possible.
In my own system now I am able to go from 250Hz up past 10kHz with a single compression driver + horn combination - it is very neutral and of course has 109dB/1w sensitivity... so that is one way to skin this cat...
Line sources, ESLs, wide/full range drivers are others...
And of course one can find "midrange" drivers that may pretty much fill the basic range requirement.
Although there are other design methods that do have xovers in this range that yield acceptable or better results as well...
So, imo, there is no "answer" just various solutions.
You first have to define the limits and goals before a viable set of alternatives can emerge that make sense.
_-_-bear
Fwiw the older Edgar horns were somewhat flawed... if you want better horns there are some right here on Diy...
My personal philosophy on this is that it is a very positive design goal to avoid any xovers between <~250 and >~3kHz. (a greater spread being better) if possible.
In my own system now I am able to go from 250Hz up past 10kHz with a single compression driver + horn combination - it is very neutral and of course has 109dB/1w sensitivity... so that is one way to skin this cat...
Line sources, ESLs, wide/full range drivers are others...
And of course one can find "midrange" drivers that may pretty much fill the basic range requirement.
Although there are other design methods that do have xovers in this range that yield acceptable or better results as well...
So, imo, there is no "answer" just various solutions.
You first have to define the limits and goals before a viable set of alternatives can emerge that make sense.
_-_-bear
Hi Bear,
May I ask what compression driver / horn combo you are using in the 250-10,000 Hz range?
Thanks!
Best regards
Peter
hi Peter
i have replaced the Fane Studio 8M in the midbass horn today with the Radian 950pb, which was laying around. I made a adapter from 2" to 4" with a left over tractrix horn, which i cut in two. Crossover of the basshorn 250hz / 24db.
Sound is terrific...., and improvement is evident. More transparent, better transient response and coherency. No wonder, Goto et al use a compression driver in the 200hz - 1khz range.
i have replaced the Fane Studio 8M in the midbass horn today with the Radian 950pb, which was laying around. I made a adapter from 2" to 4" with a left over tractrix horn, which i cut in two. Crossover of the basshorn 250hz / 24db.
Sound is terrific...., and improvement is evident. More transparent, better transient response and coherency. No wonder, Goto et al use a compression driver in the 200hz - 1khz range.
hi Peter
i have replaced the Fane Studio 8M in the midbass horn today with the Radian 950pb, which was laying around. I made a adapter from 2" to 4" with a left over tractrix horn, which i cut in two. Crossover of the basshorn 250hz / 24db.
Sound is terrific...., and improvement is evident. More transparent, better transient response and coherency. No wonder, Goto et al use a compression driver in the 200hz - 1khz range.
Hi Angelo,
That sounds interresting. How long is your horn, and how far up in frequency do you run the Radian?
Thanks!
Best regards
Peter
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