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Old 8th March 2013, 09:19 PM   #31
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Thanks for the info and the link to the other thread (post 24). The wire method looks interesting as I can get hold of some enamel coated motor winding wire, which could work well. In the other thread they are using light louvres or egg crates to help hold the wire, so do the final panels have the louvres still attached, but obviously facing away from the centre where the mylar sheet is to allow for a close gap?
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Old 8th March 2013, 11:39 PM   #32
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If you use a magnet wire be sure that you get the heaviest insulation build you can.
Even at that I am not sure how much it can withstand.

PVC coated wire is what is commonly used and is good for about 500v per mil.
I have always wanted to try some Kynar coated 30ga wire wrap wire and a few have claimed they used it with good results as well.

The plastic grid method is how the Acoustat's are made and is what inspired me to build my first panels only I used spray enamel on aluminium window screen for my stators and this worked very good.
I sealed the sharp cut edge with some clear silicone.
You must first be sure that the coating thickness is plenty becuase any later add coats do not bond to the silicone to create a good seal.

It was a just one sharp wire on the edge that wasn't buried deep enough in the silicone that started to leak and eventually gave me problem when I ventured past 7Kv of bias voltage and more than 20Kv p-p across the stators.

Here is another very good thread that deserve a good read on wire stators,

How to construct a cube louver (Acoustat)

It is by far the cheapest method of construction and still yields a great sounding product!

Enjoy!!

jer

Last edited by geraldfryjr; 8th March 2013 at 11:42 PM.
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Old 9th March 2013, 12:03 AM   #33
Bazukaz is offline Bazukaz  Lithuania
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Hi,

I have not tried enamel coated wire but there seems to be some people who got it right and some who did not. It looks like the wire is rather picky to how much you stretch it depending on type and tends to develop micro cracks if abused too much. As far as I know some amount of insulation defects are allowed per length; it could be in the order of a couple defects per 100m or so. It is acceptable in a motor or transformer where coincidence of having two defects at the same spot is extremely small. This is not the case in ESLs.
Common single stranded PVC wire like H05 is more forgiving IMO. Despite it's typical voltage rating of about 500V it can withstand by far more and is usually tested at 2 or 2.5kV in the factory. This is more or less similar to what acoustat has used.
BTW there is no absolute necessity to use louvres to support wires; one can construct frame from other materials and frequently it has some advantages, like being easier to glue wires to and/or more structural rigidity.

Regards,
Lukas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by portreathbeach View Post
Thanks for the info and the link to the other thread (post 24). The wire method looks interesting as I can get hold of some enamel coated motor winding wire, which could work well. In the other thread they are using light louvres or egg crates to help hold the wire, so do the final panels have the louvres still attached, but obviously facing away from the centre where the mylar sheet is to allow for a close gap?
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Old 9th March 2013, 08:38 PM   #34
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Thanks for the info. So it seems that it is best and easiest to use PVC coated wire to stop any leakage. Would the wire inside 'twin and earth' like the link below work well?

1TE5 1MM TWIN & EARTH CABLE 50MT 6242YŁ20.63 1TE5 1MM TWIN & EARTH CABLE 50MT 6242YPrices are exclusive of VAT which will be added when you check out Fairalls Builders MerchantsFairalls Builders Merchants

The cross sectional area of each core in this cable is 1mm, so the diameter of the core is about 1.2mm and the blue and brown insulation is probably about 0.5mm. Would this be a good candidate? and if so, would a gap between the wires of 1.5mm be OK?
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Old 9th March 2013, 09:19 PM   #35
Bazukaz is offline Bazukaz  Lithuania
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No this is not good. You should be seeking for single non flexible wire with monolithic conductor.Use black if available.Something similar to H05V-U or H07V, like :
H05V-U / H07V-U - harmonized PVC solid bare copper

Then you will have to pull the wires real hard and flatten them. A kind of tool is required. You must get into plastic deformation of copper. One relatively simple way to build the jig is to use threaded rods welded together. If you don't have access to welding equipment then perhaps you could find a garage to do this for you(as did I ). This way you can get two stators wrapped at once.
In case you are going to use light louvres welding is not needed as a single threaded rod can be chosen to be thicker than two stators.
See pic attached.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 5.jpg (796.6 KB, 93 views)

Last edited by Bazukaz; 9th March 2013 at 09:23 PM. Reason: Extend
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Old 9th March 2013, 09:28 PM   #36
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Hi Bazukaz. The link I posted is solid core cable and is fairly stiff compared to flex cable, what is the difference between that and the link you posted? Also, what size is the wire used in the picture and what thread is the bar?

By the way, very simple and nice jig.
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Old 9th March 2013, 09:46 PM   #37
Bazukaz is offline Bazukaz  Lithuania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by portreathbeach View Post
Hi Bazukaz. The link I posted is solid core cable and is fairly stiff compared to flex cable, what is the difference between that and the link you posted? Also, what size is the wire used in the picture and what thread is the bar?

By the way, very simple and nice jig.
The wire you posted is double insulated with three wires inside. How do you plan to extract these wires for hundreds of meters?
I have used 0.5mm^2 wire with 0.6mm insulation. The threaded rods are 27mm in diameter each.
BTW I want to warn that if you plan to use plastic louvers it may not be easy to glue relatively thick wires to it reliably as gluing surface of plastic is very thin, and material is somewhat brittle. Acoustat used to dissolve the same louvre material in methylene chloride and use it as a glue with a viscosity like a thick syrup. I have tested this under DIY conditions and it seemed to work.
Later I have decided to make frames from other materials which accept many different glues and are stiffer.

Regards,
Lukas.
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Old 9th March 2013, 10:05 PM   #38
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Thanks again. I realise the link I posted has 3 cores inside of it, but by pulling the centre core (earth) back on itself it simply rips open the grey sheathing and you can take easily take out the other wires. Maybe 1mm^2 cable is too large anyway.

I like the idea of your jig, using a continuous wire wrapped round and around and making 2 stators at the same time. How much stretch did you put on the wire after you wound it? and how did you fix the ends after you separated it into 2 stators. Sorry for all of the questions, I want a good idea of what needs to be done before I start playing around.
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Old 9th March 2013, 10:49 PM   #39
Bazukaz is offline Bazukaz  Lithuania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by portreathbeach View Post
Thanks again. I realise the link I posted has 3 cores inside of it, but by pulling the centre core (earth) back on itself it simply rips open the grey sheathing and you can take easily take out the other wires. Maybe 1mm^2 cable is too large anyway.
If you can find single wire it would be a lot simpler to do so and there is no risk of accidentally damaging the insulation while pulling center conductor out of the 2nd layer.
I am not sure if H05 wire(I think its an EU standard) is available in UK but in LT it costs like 8 EUR/100m.

Quote:
Originally Posted by portreathbeach View Post
I like the idea of your jig, using a continuous wire wrapped round and around and making 2 stators at the same time. How much stretch did you put on the wire after you wound it? and how did you fix the ends after you separated it into 2 stators. Sorry for all of the questions, I want a good idea of what needs to be done before I start playing around.
I do stretch stretch the wire to about 1-2% and then release to a point when they lose tension again. At this stage it is easy to see if there are still some small radius wrinkles in wires. If yes, stretch a bit more. If no, then stretch just enough to get them straight and then proceed to gluing to stators.
It is not a good idea to glue wires under high tension; combined force of them can be very high and will deform or even break supporting construction when removed from the jig.
After that there are 3 steps left:
1) Clean ends of each wire. It is a bit of a pain.
2) attach spacers at the ends(glue or otherwise)
3) Solder wires either together or with segmentation resistors

Sorry for poor quality photos but I do not have a better camera at this time.
Photo below is of not completed stator yet, after being removed from the jig.

Regards,
Lukas.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 6.jpg (862.3 KB, 92 views)

Last edited by Bazukaz; 9th March 2013 at 11:04 PM. Reason: Extend
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Old 9th March 2013, 11:01 PM   #40
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Very neat. I was wondering whether this idea would work.....Building the stator using 1inch x 1/2 inch oak.

Putting two 4 foot lengths about 1 foot apart and then using pieces of the same oak glued (or joined using half cut joints) every 8 inches up the length to create a ladder. The wire would then be put onto the stators using a jig similar to the one you showed a couple of posts ago. Now instead of using glue to hold the wire in place, I was thinking that the 3m double sided foam tape could be laid over the top of the wires when the 'steps' of the ladder are. This would then act as the spacer when attaching the Mylar.

Would this work, or would putting foam tape every 8 inch create a kind of array of smaller panels with a higher lowest frequency response?
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