How to construct a cube louver (Acoustat) - Page 3 - diyAudio
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Old 9th April 2010, 07:33 PM   #21
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Capaciti: first let me preface my comment (to all readers) please do not take my remarks personally, I like Acoustats and I have the greatest respect for Jim Strickland. Jim's design is in my opinion the best that has ever gone to market and has enjoyed the longest useful lifespan of any commercial ESL that I know of.
I am not trying to knock Acoustats. Some of the feed back to my suggestion that it is time to start thinking about building replacement panel has bordered upon hostile. Arguments about silly things and comments along the lines of " mine are like new" abound. Yes there are some old Acoustats that have had a good easy life and they are functioning very well. There are lots more that are old and tired because they have been used well and hard and are worse for wear. Then there are units with physically damaged panels that cannot be replaced. If I told everyone that my 35 year old car was as good as new and that I had done next to no maintenance to it over its life span how many out there would believe me? Sure it may be on good condition (for a 35 year old car) but it is not in new condition nor even close. People are taking this personally and it does not make any sense.
The point is that new panels are going to be and are needed soon or now. If you are going to go to the trouble of building new ones (after such a long time) why would you not want to look at options that would make the newly built units better? At the very least it would make sense to review the known issues of the original design and see if those aspects of the design could be adjusted to address those issues.
This is not something that any commercial manufacturer is going to provide for the market as there is not enough money in it and they would rather sell new units of their own design and that's fair. So if people want new Acoustat panels they are going to have to organize to clone their own. Like wise if they want new panels that are better than the stock units they will have to do the same. These are two different project. The person who has one broken panel and only wants one new panel will expect the replacement to be identical to the remaining panels that he has so "better" is not what he wants or needs. I think that there is an interest out there to do both but again I say that this will only happen on a diy basis. So lets get over the hurt feelings because nobody is dissing Acoustats here. I hope that there is a better understanding of where I am coming from regarding this. I have made no attacks I have no agenda and I don't want to build and sell replacement Acoustat panels. I have stated elsewhere that I have in the past attempted to enlist three different people to help them to set up to build Acoustat replacement panels including building the jigs necessary and walking through the procedure to get them up and running but no one has been willing to undertake the project. The owners club needs a parts pool who better to build the parts? Regards.
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Last edited by moray james; 9th April 2010 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 9th April 2010, 09:01 PM   #22
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I'm part way through separating a 5 wire panel down the long seam. The 65HS is dirty and the wires seem to be cleaner than I'd expect. MJ as you might already have figured I am "Ohifio" Over at AA. I agree there are two different directions on this, but you seem to be suggesting that if a duplicate panel is created that certain issues should be addressed. I think a solid core wire PVC insulated like the stock panel, and of the same diameter as the stock wire could be bonded to a stronger non-styrene version of the Acoustat grid. While we're at it how about clipping the bare wire ends and just join them top and bottom and encapsulate that junction in epoxy? Speaker lead out the bottom and the top and the bias wire for a "killer" 3 wire Acoustat duplicate. Could PVC plumber type cement be used to bond the two haves together as well as affix the mylar to the frame? I have PVC flat stock sign material that is light and strong for the mylar frame.
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Old 9th April 2010, 09:03 PM   #23
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Oh and where to get the stronger grid material? Is it acrylic or what?
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Old 9th April 2010, 10:14 PM   #24
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Speedracer5: yes there are issues that could/should be addressed. I have gone over a number of them as you stated some. The latter Acoustat stators used stranded wire which is easier and better to use and work with from a construction point of view. Those panels used a single length of wire and made connects to the transformer from each of the opposite ends of that stator winding wire. For a stock clone this is the method I would use and I would not change this or there will be significant differences when matching to previous Acoustat panels. Since the exact PVC alloy used on the Acoustat panels is not known it would be wisest to use a currently available PVC dielectric of the same insulation thickness. I have forgotten the gage Acoustat used but it is most likely 26 but that is easy to check for accuracy. For an Acoustat clone standard 1/2 inch thick Styrene louvre would be required to maintain the sonic character (you are making a clone). The encapsulation method using solvent diluted Styrene solids is also the best method to build this panel. Jim already figured that out so there is no need to re invent the wheel for a clone project. Other options do exist for a different project but not for a clone. If you wanted to you could experiment with any number of readily available construction adhesives which would probably work as well as encapsulation but I would imagine that the application would be as much or more work to achieve acceptable results. I think that the easiest way to assemble the two stators would be to use an Acrylic transfer adhesive. You might want to look into adjusting the stator spacing to ensure that the diaphragm to stator wire (in this case the surface of the stator wire) is kept close to Acoustat spec. to maintain compatibility with older panels. What ever material you chose to use for stator spacing would best have a low content of plasticizer. Acoustats used Styrene stator spacers as this is the easiest to solvent weld to the Styrene louvre. Different materials here might make a noticeable difference to the sound of the panel. Lighting supply shop can sell you a wide assortment of louvre material. For an Acoustat clone you need the Styrene. You will also have to hand select the panels to insure the cube pattern mates when sections are meant to be book matched. As I mentioned this is junky material which is all over the place. Jim probably bought panels made on one mould to ensure matching.
For a "Hot Rod" design you will first need to decide what your criteria is and exactly what it is that you want to make. Why not play with the basic Acoustat format and adjust things one at a time and see where that takes you. Such a project is probably going to require a large amount of trial and error to establish successful construction techniques there are no straight answers you will be making something new for the first time.
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Last edited by moray james; 9th April 2010 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 10th April 2010, 01:29 AM   #25
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How does increasing the wires/inch affect the overall impedance of the finished speaker
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Old 10th April 2010, 08:19 AM   #26
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I make panels like the Acoustat panels. I place pieces of the frame scraps in solvent to produce a thick "syrup". I then apply this as my wire bonding agent.
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Old 10th April 2010, 12:29 PM   #27
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Increasing wires per inch affectively increases the capacitance therefore reducing impedance.I don't know how much percentage vs wires per inch. jer

Last edited by geraldfryjr; 10th April 2010 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 10th April 2010, 02:34 PM   #28
tyu is offline tyu  United States
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Default Get That Bias uP!

If all Acoustats bias Setups are low, As most are now after 30years, get the bias up i say 5-6k
Allen here Moray you have been missed,
Thanks
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Old 10th April 2010, 03:39 PM   #29
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Is there a way to look at louver panels and tell what they are made of.
At Home Depot their product doesn't say, and the kid obviously doesn't either.
Paul
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Old 10th April 2010, 03:48 PM   #30
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so, increasing wires/inch = more capacitive reactance. This will be an overall higher impedance as seen by the amplifier?
Easier, or harder speaker to drive I guess is my real question.
As this is one of my design goals.
Paul
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