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Old 13th July 2009, 05:33 PM   #71
jcx is online now jcx  United States
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Default nanotube = "high structure"?

how about carbon nanotube inks or transparent conductive coatings?

http://www.nano-lab.com/nink.html

for esl the biggest problem I see is too high conductivity - would practical dilution give good esl charge control conductivity?

how about printing a high aspect ratio/low fill grid pattern with the higher conductivity available inks to get higher sheet resistivity?
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Old 13th July 2009, 05:58 PM   #72
SY is offline SY  United States
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Why do it the hard/exotic way? CNTs? Sheesh. Gimmick.

Carbon black works fine and getting the conductivity low enough is MUCH easier than with low structure factor, high conductivity materials..
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Old 13th July 2009, 06:08 PM   #73
jcx is online now jcx  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by SY
Why do it the hard/exotic way? CNTs? Sheesh. Gimmick.
so we should definitely expect to see nanotube coating on commerical esl next CES?
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Old 13th July 2009, 06:55 PM   #74
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

no, the tube stuff is just expensive. The problem with coatings is not to get the right value of resistivity, but to get a even distributed coating that adheres perfectly to the substrate for years. Adhesion is the problem not resistance.

jauu
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Old 13th July 2009, 07:02 PM   #75
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SY, let's hope that Reromanus let us know his policy from his own pen,
why speculate?

With professisional help from a chemical lab, I developed a coating 15 years ago myself and sent 20 ml samples for free all over the world.


I had to stop when one of the ingredients needed wasn't manufactured anymore.
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Old 13th July 2009, 07:10 PM   #76
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Most adhesion problems come from a separation of the coating at the coating-film interface, or the coating not being able to wet the film enough. This is caused by low surface energy. Low surface energy in PET films can be caused by slip agents and extrusion additives added during fabrication, that slowly make their way to the surface of the film and lower it's surface energy. Especially when the film is heated (!).

Proper cleaning, and if deemed necessary corona treatment, go a long way to assure good adhesion.
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Old 13th July 2009, 07:11 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally posted by JonasKarud
[

With professisional help from a chemical lab, I developed a coating 15 years ago myself and sent 20 ml samples for free all over the world.


I had to stop when one of the ingredients needed wasn't manufactured anymore. [/B]

Hi Jonas,
Are we talking about the bright pink coloured coating distributed by Audio4 in the Netherlands??
(It was called 'Karud coating'.)
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Old 13th July 2009, 07:31 PM   #78
SY is offline SY  United States
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What Arend-Jan said. Adhesion is not at all a problem if surface treatment is done. Corona, plasma, flame, or chemical, they all work and are all necessary. With a proper surface treatment, even coatings of high resistivity are trivially easy.

Quote:
With professisional help from a chemical lab, I developed a coating 15 years ago myself
Hopefully, not for 60 euro per small bottle!
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Old 13th July 2009, 10:28 PM   #79
Kontra is offline Kontra  Russian Federation
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SY
Thanks.
I think that have understood - radicals of difficulty - at a rate of departure.
60 euros are weight of money!
JonasKarud
What volume coating for you correct. A sending off to Russia Chelyabinsk. Only ground mail.
You can send? I do{make} ESL for myself. At the reasonable price - there will be still buyers. If you want.
Correctly measure volume of the market I can not. I have many friends which do{make} ESL for myself.
How many the coating is stored{kept}? Resistance of a coverage? Adhesion to mylar films?
The brief exposition if is possible.
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Old 14th July 2009, 05:41 AM   #80
Calvin is offline Calvin  Germany
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Hi,

You´re right about the pretreatment of the diaphragm. But that is not the way 99% of the DIYers do it and probabely not the way most commercial designs underwent.
How should a DIYer get his hands on a generator for corona treatment and how should he use it in praxis (think that plasma, flame or chemical are even more out of DIY)?

jauu
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