Hi all,
i hope that there is nothing about power supplies with CAR- batteries or accus.
I think at a 12, 0, 12 volt psu for ALEPH X.
i searched the forums, but found nothing.
I think that a big improvement of sound can be done with battery psu. Even more than with super expensive capacitors like RUBICON BLACK GATES.
Since i am no electronic expert i ask you all for schematics and suggestions. Why do one need in an accu psu such big capacitance?
When the accus are fully loaded, can one connect to an amp direct to the accu ore are the capacitors required anyway....
Regards,
Ralf
i hope that there is nothing about power supplies with CAR- batteries or accus.
I think at a 12, 0, 12 volt psu for ALEPH X.
i searched the forums, but found nothing.
I think that a big improvement of sound can be done with battery psu. Even more than with super expensive capacitors like RUBICON BLACK GATES.
Since i am no electronic expert i ask you all for schematics and suggestions. Why do one need in an accu psu such big capacitance?
When the accus are fully loaded, can one connect to an amp direct to the accu ore are the capacitors required anyway....
Regards,
Ralf
Is it wise to want to feed an amplifier that draws at least 4
amperes all the time with batteries?
You will have a lot of work when you need to recharge them
every few hours of playtime.
Even if you decided to come up with a circuit that will handle the
charge job, (which is not a trivial task), you will have to ask
yourself if it is worth all the extra trouble/expenses.
Especcially if you know that there is a real good alternative in the form of an isolation transformer.
If you are going to use batteries I would shure like to read your experiences with them.
Regards.
amperes all the time with batteries?
You will have a lot of work when you need to recharge them
every few hours of playtime.
Even if you decided to come up with a circuit that will handle the
charge job, (which is not a trivial task), you will have to ask
yourself if it is worth all the extra trouble/expenses.
Especcially if you know that there is a real good alternative in the form of an isolation transformer.
If you are going to use batteries I would shure like to read your experiences with them.
Regards.
Two 12 volts Car batteries
Can make a VERY good Source of Current
for an AUDIO amplifier.
It is usual to eastimate, that you can USE
half of the nominal VAh.
So for a 60VAh, you can use 30VAh, before reload.
It is fully possible to RUN some time during day.
And RELOAD, While you are sleeping at night.
Say you have 2 amps, draws 2x2A= 4A
Your battery is rated 60VAh, use half 30VAh
30 Vah is consumed in: 30VAh/4A= 7,5 hours
So if you drive 7,5 Hours (use timer ON/OFF)
You have 16,5 hours for to Reload, each night
No 50 Hz ripple from batteries,
No Transformator
No Rectifier-bridgde
No disturbance from Mains crap
2x12 volt (2x24 volts truck) Battery is a VERY good alternative!
As long as We do not have DC Currents coming out of the Wall Socket
There are millions of persons using this kinda systems.
The Car-Stereo People. They are the real Experts on HIFI.
they do not discuss mains-hum, and a lot of things that we have to cope with
Can make a VERY good Source of Current
for an AUDIO amplifier.
It is usual to eastimate, that you can USE
half of the nominal VAh.
So for a 60VAh, you can use 30VAh, before reload.
It is fully possible to RUN some time during day.
And RELOAD, While you are sleeping at night.
Say you have 2 amps, draws 2x2A= 4A
Your battery is rated 60VAh, use half 30VAh
30 Vah is consumed in: 30VAh/4A= 7,5 hours
So if you drive 7,5 Hours (use timer ON/OFF)
You have 16,5 hours for to Reload, each night
No 50 Hz ripple from batteries,
No Transformator
No Rectifier-bridgde
No disturbance from Mains crap
2x12 volt (2x24 volts truck) Battery is a VERY good alternative! As long as We do not have DC Currents coming out of the Wall Socket There are millions of persons using this kinda systems.
The Car-Stereo People. They are the real Experts on HIFI.
they do not discuss mains-hum, and a lot of things that we have to cope with
Come ON! 
)ralf: The N.E.W DCA-33 (by Nirvana Engineering Works, USA, now defunct) is a 33w/ch Class A, battery powered pure d.c amplifier. It is supposedly based on the Nelson Pass A40 with a d.c power supply added. There is also a bigger N.E.W DCA-66 amplifier.
The DCA-33 is a beautiful, sweet sounding, high current, 'doubling' amp that will run continuously for 20hrs on it's 4 X 17AmpHr Panasonic batteries. The whole system is self-charging and fuss-free with the batteries lasting 3-4yrs before requiring replacement.
However, I'm not entirely sure that the benefits of pure d.c battery power are really worthwhile? I have not heard the NP A40 so cannot say the DCA-33 is far superior to it with it's battery supply. However, I have compared the Pass Aleph 3 with the N.E.W, and the little Pass amp is sweeter in the treble (although it is a close thing overall). The N.E.W however, delivers more current and outdrives the Pass. Surprisingly in one comparison, the N.E.W almost kept up with a Krell KAS200 for outright drive! Although the Krell did play louder, it definately did not have the finesse of the little battery powered N.E.W .
Also IMHO, as far as solid state amps go, the Belcanto EVo200.2 amplifier with it's Tripath Class-T digital circuitry is better than all of the above.
Regards,
Steve M.
PS: Before you ask, I do not have the circuit diagram for the N.E.W amps.
The DCA-33 is a beautiful, sweet sounding, high current, 'doubling' amp that will run continuously for 20hrs on it's 4 X 17AmpHr Panasonic batteries. The whole system is self-charging and fuss-free with the batteries lasting 3-4yrs before requiring replacement.
However, I'm not entirely sure that the benefits of pure d.c battery power are really worthwhile? I have not heard the NP A40 so cannot say the DCA-33 is far superior to it with it's battery supply. However, I have compared the Pass Aleph 3 with the N.E.W, and the little Pass amp is sweeter in the treble (although it is a close thing overall). The N.E.W however, delivers more current and outdrives the Pass. Surprisingly in one comparison, the N.E.W almost kept up with a Krell KAS200 for outright drive! Although the Krell did play louder, it definately did not have the finesse of the little battery powered N.E.W .
Also IMHO, as far as solid state amps go, the Belcanto EVo200.2 amplifier with it's Tripath Class-T digital circuitry is better than all of the above.
Regards,
Steve M.
PS: Before you ask, I do not have the circuit diagram for the N.E.W amps.
N.E.W. nirvana DC-33
Steve
That was all the reviewer, Terry Soohoo, wrote.
Very little I found on the web.
Just about all is these links at AudioWeb.
One review.
And some previous "for sale".
Simular difficulty to find Nirvana at the web.
Just an adress in Santa Fe.
http://www.audioweb.com/Review/Revi...mpanyid=457&searchtype=B&sort=M&revieworder=1
http://www.audioweb.com/Directory/ModelInfo.asp?modelid=10216
http://www.audioweb.com/Directory/DirectoryInfo.asp?companyid=457
Steve
That was all the reviewer, Terry Soohoo, wrote.
Very little I found on the web.
Just about all is these links at AudioWeb.
One review.
And some previous "for sale".
Simular difficulty to find Nirvana at the web.
Just an adress in Santa Fe.
http://www.audioweb.com/Review/Revi...mpanyid=457&searchtype=B&sort=M&revieworder=1
http://www.audioweb.com/Directory/ModelInfo.asp?modelid=10216
http://www.audioweb.com/Directory/DirectoryInfo.asp?companyid=457
here a schematic
what do you think about it?
i wonder about that schematic. when it`s switched on, there should be the ripple of the mains over the battery supply.
i think when the batteries supply the amp, the mains should not be connected to the battery.??!!!
Regards,
Ralf
what do you think about it?
i wonder about that schematic. when it`s switched on, there should be the ripple of the mains over the battery supply.
i think when the batteries supply the amp, the mains should not be connected to the battery.??!!!
Regards,
Ralf
Attachments
testing the state of the battries
Halojoy, (thanks for your statement)
how can one test the battery state.
how can i know if the batteries are full,
can the batteries be overloaded or underloaded and cause of that get damaged. how can i prevent that?
are there schematics or circuits to manage the fullfilling batteries?
regards,
Ralf
Halojoy, (thanks for your statement)
how can one test the battery state.
how can i know if the batteries are full,
can the batteries be overloaded or underloaded and cause of that get damaged. how can i prevent that?
are there schematics or circuits to manage the fullfilling batteries?
regards,
Ralf
accu sound
Hi Ralf,
a friend of mine did many testss with power amps fead by accus. His statemant could be quoted in this way: it is extremely clear, but the dynamics is sufferíng a bit. I think the high inner dynamic resistance of the accus is the matter. They can not follow impulses fast enough, that is the reason that they need best big capacitors parallel.
Test it, make your experimences and please let us know...
Regards
Klaus
Hi Ralf,
a friend of mine did many testss with power amps fead by accus. His statemant could be quoted in this way: it is extremely clear, but the dynamics is sufferíng a bit. I think the high inner dynamic resistance of the accus is the matter. They can not follow impulses fast enough, that is the reason that they need best big capacitors parallel.
Test it, make your experimences and please let us know...
Regards
Klaus
WARNING!! Safety Hazard!!!
Hi all,
Please be carefull with car or even truck lead-acid batteries. A <B>HIGHLY </B>explosive mixture of hydrogen/oxygen gas can escape. This can blow up your listening room or entire home. Also the sulphuric-acid spattered around can seriously damage your eyes.
Please be carefull and place the car batteries <B>OUTSIDE</B> in the open air, well ventilated! Do not overcharge as this increases the risk of gaseruption.
Texas Instruments makes a nice charger controller IC but I think it is not intended for these monsters. If I would ever go this far I would use a <B>good quality</B> lead acid charger with overload protection and auto switch-off as sold in car accessoires shops. Also I would not choose the fast charge option as this increases the chance of gas eruption.
Don't make your hobby turn into a disaster!
See also:
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=tweaks&n=49531&highlight=explosive&r=&session=
Hi all,
Please be carefull with car or even truck lead-acid batteries. A <B>HIGHLY </B>explosive mixture of hydrogen/oxygen gas can escape. This can blow up your listening room or entire home. Also the sulphuric-acid spattered around can seriously damage your eyes.
Please be carefull and place the car batteries <B>OUTSIDE</B> in the open air, well ventilated! Do not overcharge as this increases the risk of gaseruption.
Texas Instruments makes a nice charger controller IC but I think it is not intended for these monsters. If I would ever go this far I would use a <B>good quality</B> lead acid charger with overload protection and auto switch-off as sold in car accessoires shops. Also I would not choose the fast charge option as this increases the chance of gas eruption.
Don't make your hobby turn into a disaster!
See also:
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=tweaks&n=49531&highlight=explosive&r=&session=
Klaus
Hi Klaus,
is it possible to communicate with yor friend about this, you know i live about 100km away from Frankfurt (near Hockenheim).
But, when one uses good and big capacitors, all problems should be overgone and the psu should follow big impulses fast.!?
Has anyone alternative PSU`s
Regards,
Ralf
Klaus said:
Hi Klaus,
is it possible to communicate with yor friend about this, you know i live about 100km away from Frankfurt (near Hockenheim).
But, when one uses good and big capacitors, all problems should be overgone and the psu should follow big impulses fast.!?
Has anyone alternative PSU`s
Regards,
Ralf
Accu sound vs PSU
Hi Ralf,
the word “a friend” was to strong, it was just a mate, a buddy. I have lost contact to him since he moved his living location from Hamburg to ? one year ago. So sorry, no more contact available. He told me in former mails and a phone call about the results I quoted. As far as I remember he used strong industry batteries for emergency exit illumination systems at a ZAP solute amp.
If “good and big” caps could cover disadvantages of slow impulse capability of accus I´m not shure about. It could just be tested, I guess...
My personal opinion: with good PSU´s - using well oversized transformers, big and fast cans with faster impulse caps bridged, low-impedance soft recovery rectifiers, strong leads etc., and most important a appropriate cable from the fuse box to the hifi set in the appartment – the quality of the PSU is almost perfect. No battery needed for power amps. For pre-amps, phono-stages etc the story told totally different of cause!
Best regards to 100km south
Klaus
Hi Ralf,
the word “a friend” was to strong, it was just a mate, a buddy. I have lost contact to him since he moved his living location from Hamburg to ? one year ago. So sorry, no more contact available. He told me in former mails and a phone call about the results I quoted. As far as I remember he used strong industry batteries for emergency exit illumination systems at a ZAP solute amp.
If “good and big” caps could cover disadvantages of slow impulse capability of accus I´m not shure about. It could just be tested, I guess...
My personal opinion: with good PSU´s - using well oversized transformers, big and fast cans with faster impulse caps bridged, low-impedance soft recovery rectifiers, strong leads etc., and most important a appropriate cable from the fuse box to the hifi set in the appartment – the quality of the PSU is almost perfect. No battery needed for power amps. For pre-amps, phono-stages etc the story told totally different of cause!
Best regards to 100km south
Klaus
Re: testing the state of the battries
Determining the state of charge (SOC) of a battery is not an easy thing to do. For large lead-acid batteries (ie, car batteries) the most direct method is to measure the specific gravity of the electrolyte using a hydrometer. You can also estimate SOC from the battery voltage, but for this you need the voltage vs. SOC graph for your particular battery. Probably the most common way to measure SOC is with a watt-hour meter. You start with a fully charged battery, and keep track of watt-hours out vs. watt-hours in.
You should never discharge a lead-acid battery to lower than 50% depth of discharge (DOD). Doing so will warp the lead plates and rapidly kill the battery. Even 50% DOD is really too much for long battery life. A good deep-cycle lead acid battery (not a car battery) will last for 10 years or more with daily cycles to 20%DOD.
Typical car battery chargers are very bad for the battery. A good multi-stage charger with variable setpoints is essential for long battery life.
ralf said:
Determining the state of charge (SOC) of a battery is not an easy thing to do. For large lead-acid batteries (ie, car batteries) the most direct method is to measure the specific gravity of the electrolyte using a hydrometer. You can also estimate SOC from the battery voltage, but for this you need the voltage vs. SOC graph for your particular battery. Probably the most common way to measure SOC is with a watt-hour meter. You start with a fully charged battery, and keep track of watt-hours out vs. watt-hours in.
You should never discharge a lead-acid battery to lower than 50% depth of discharge (DOD). Doing so will warp the lead plates and rapidly kill the battery. Even 50% DOD is really too much for long battery life. A good deep-cycle lead acid battery (not a car battery) will last for 10 years or more with daily cycles to 20%DOD.
Typical car battery chargers are very bad for the battery. A good multi-stage charger with variable setpoints is essential for long battery life.
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