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Old 3rd November 2007, 10:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Magura

, and that is the thermal resistance of the heat transfer system, that being water or just a plain lump of aluminum. So you actually need to ADD heatsink if you use water to transfer the heat from the device to the heatsink, in order to keep the device at the same temperature as if it was just bolted onto the heatsink.....bad business!
The reason to use watercooling in a computer, is the space constraints, you have no such when building an amplifier, so you can just bolt the devices directly onto the heatsink.


Hi,
In a hardcore, overclocked computer you need efficient heat dissipation. In a water cooling system, the heat transfer is helped by a circulation pump that literally pumps the heated water away from the CPU and replaces it with cool water. This system doesn't use a heatsink, it uses a radiator. Heated water enters the radiator and the heat is extracted. This can be helped by a fan, to move the air across the radiator (similar to a cars cooling system).

This is a very effective way to cool, but it's complex and expensive. Unless the radiator is passive, you have fan noise. If you can live with fan noise, it might be more worthwhile to actively cool a regular heatsink.

Big score on the bragging rights though.
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Old 3rd November 2007, 10:36 PM   #12
cviller is offline cviller  Denmark
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Is this carpenters idea?

How long does the orange joints need to be in order to transfer the energy to the water at a given velocity? And how about thermal tracking between the fets, wouldn't that be a lot better if they were all mounted on the same lump of iron?
I doubt waters thermal conductivity is sufficient for such a setup...
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Old 3rd November 2007, 10:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by carpenter
My primary concern is that voltage may carry through the water to the other fets if I don't use mica isolators.

At low voltages, I'm inclined to think that voltage transference through water will be negligible; just wondered if anyone else had experimented with this concept.
It wouldn't be hard to test. Take a tube of water of whatever length and put it in a U shape with water in. put two copper leads in each end and hook up whatever the operating voltage is. If you see bubbles, then no go. Try some type of oil, as it is far less conductive.

I believe you can also get special liquids made for this from places like newegg. It will probably be far less corrosive to the copper sinks than water.

g'luck
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Old 3rd November 2007, 11:05 PM   #14
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Distilled water (available at most drugstores) is completely non-conductive.
It also doesn't corrode copper.
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Old 3rd November 2007, 11:27 PM   #15
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Thanks for the replies, guys.

I like the idea of using a radiator! I have a deck just outside my listening room--I could mount it there.

Distilled water sounds like the immediate candidate.
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Old 4th November 2007, 12:05 AM   #16
Magura is offline Magura  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJL21193



Hi,
In a hardcore, overclocked computer you need efficient heat dissipation. In a water cooling system, the heat transfer is helped by a circulation pump that literally pumps the heated water away from the CPU and replaces it with cool water. This system doesn't use a heatsink, it uses a radiator. Heated water enters the radiator and the heat is extracted. This can be helped by a fan, to move the air across the radiator (similar to a cars cooling system).

This is a very effective way to cool, but it's complex and expensive. Unless the radiator is passive, you have fan noise. If you can live with fan noise, it might be more worthwhile to actively cool a regular heatsink.

Big score on the bragging rights though.
Now all you need is to tell us what the actual difference is between a radiator and a heatsink when it comes to dissipating heat?

Radiator= heatsink with liquid running through it....hence thermal resistance calc looks like this:

Thermal resistance from device to cooling block + thermal resistance from cooling block to liquid + thermal resistance from liquid to heatsink (radiator)......or you could just lay low and stick to thermal resistance from device to heatsink


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Old 4th November 2007, 12:35 AM   #17
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Is the slow heat up time desirable for audio amps?
It might take an hour to fully reach thermal equilibrium.

You'd need a pretty big radiator to dissipate 200-300 watts.
I'd guess a three by 120mm PC radiator system.
Cost would likely be $150 USD.

Likely the water cooling system would cost more money than big passive heat sinks. But it would have a cool factor in that it might be less weight and smaller.

I've wondered if you couldn't mount an Aleph with water cooling into a normal PC case. Since PC cases are pretty much commodity the cost might work out.
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Old 4th November 2007, 12:37 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Magura


Now all you need is to tell us what the actual difference is between a radiator and a heatsink when it comes to dissipating heat? ......or you could just lay low and stick to thermal resistance from device to heatsink

Ever wonder why most car engines are water cooled and not air cooled? It's more efficient, that's why. Yes, there are more steps, more complication but it's worth it because it's more efficient.

Think about how quickly heat travels through an aluminum heatsink. Now think about how fast water can travel through a radiator. There's the difference. Got it?
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Old 4th November 2007, 12:45 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJL21193




Think about how quickly heat travels through an aluminum heatsink. Now think about how fast water can travel through a radiator. There's the difference. Got it?
I greatly respect your input, but in this case you need to do the math....it's a plain matter of radiating surface area. It is no problem to make the heat travel through the aluminum, as long as there is enough of it. The speed is of no importance in this aspect.


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Old 4th November 2007, 12:47 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJL21193



Ever wonder why most car engines are water cooled and not air cooled? It's more efficient, that's why. Yes, there are more steps, more complication but it's worth it because it's more efficient.

That is not the reason for watercooling in cars.
The reason is partly to reduce fan noise (read up on it at the Porsche website) and partly that watercooling can be distributed more even in a car engine.

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