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Old 5th May 2004, 06:50 AM   #11
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They always started the group buy at their web-based newsgroup first.

I just wonder at they said get the permission from Mr. Nelson Pass.
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Old 5th May 2004, 10:34 AM   #12
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Location: Pickering, Canada
I do not see where they mention Mr. PASS permission at the link you post

But this

Note: The circuits of Aleph2 and Aleph5 came from the PASS original schematics. The MSRP is rather high.....

May be you think this remark meant they got PASS LAB's blessing?
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Old 5th May 2004, 12:41 PM   #13
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The link I posted is just for the prove of the selling or will be selling Aleph-2 & Aleph-5!

He said he get the permission from NP was at the pervious post!!
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Old 6th May 2004, 01:28 PM   #14
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Location: Oregon City, Oregon
Exclamation why not compete?

Color me surprised.... (not)

Offer a kit, and have the directions written in every language. Everyone who can read would purchase an original. Give them a taste of their own medicine.
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Old 6th May 2004, 01:33 PM   #15
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Location: Pickering, Canada
Default Re: why not compete?

Originally posted by carpenter
Color me surprised.... (not)

Offer a kit, and have the directions written in every language. Everyone who can read would purchase an original. Give them a taste of their own medicine.

I think it is the IP of Mr.PASS in question here...
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Old 12th May 2004, 05:43 AM   #16
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Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Default From a stranger.

Dear all,

I am a stranger from Taiwan, and was hearing your discussion of Diy Zone(We named it DZ in Taiwan) so that I came to visit. After going though your previous discussion of this website roughly, I found that you really feel not comfortable with some actions taken by this Website. Actually, I do not know whether Diy Zone had done something wrong or not, especially in copyright filed because currently I only know that Mr. Nelson, whom I respect of very much, only requires that no website can post the schematic of his design, but its acceptable to link to his website. Please kindly correct me if my understanding is not right.

What I want to say is that I can tell you the function of the website to the Taiwan diyers or if you wan to know something about it. I will tell you their undergoing project based on Mr. Nelsons design later on since I am in office hours now(please do not forward this post to my boss). If they really did something wrong, please kindly let me know. I will post it on Diy Zones website in Chinese to have everybody know about it. Hope that may be helpful for mutual understanding.

In addition, before doing so, I would like to introduce myself. I am also a diyer in Taiwan(but having poor skills), and had bought some kits form Diy Zone. But there is no any connection between Diy Zone and me. Just wan to help you to understand their operation in Taiwan. Please forgive me if I say something or use some terms improper since English is not my mother language. Finally, I am happy to know that there is still a place outside Taiwan, and form where I can learn more. Nice to meet you all. Thank you.

B. Regards,

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Old 12th May 2004, 10:10 AM   #17
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Default What I know of Diy Zone.

Dear all,

Many Taiwan people, who would like to assemble the their AV system by themselves, have the difficulty like what I have. We have enthusiasm, and passion to motivate us to do it ourselves, but we may lack of the proper skills, such as develop the PWB by ourselves or have difficulty in gathering all the components (power supply, resistors, capacitors, etc). Some of us even do not know how to tell the polarity for certain type of capacitor. What we need are a patient consultant, a place where we may raise some stupid questions, and a vender that can not only provide the AV kit to us but also has the services to help their clients to complete the it, or even resolves some difficult problems to adjust their system. Although I do not know all the DIY websites in Taiwan, what I know is that many of us will chose Diy Zone to buy the AV kit. I think the main reason is not for the prices. For example, I did not buy all the AV kit form Diy Znoe because of their little higher prices resulted from their high quality (my own opinion). In addition, I like it more to do all the process by myself, purchasing components(IC, resistor, capacitors, etc), buying PWB(I do not know to make the layout or to develop it), assembling it, and, of course, exploding it sometimes. So that I only bough the PWB from Diy Zone for some projects. What I want to say is that those people who chose Diy Zone is because Diy Zone do help us to do what we want to do. There are some skillful people in the website who are willing to help those fresh guys, like me, to complete our own machine.

Do they make money? Well, I am not the boss, neither their employee so that I do know. What I know is their kit is really popular here, especially for the students who are not rich enough to afford the machine with good brand. Some people even hang on their website all day long to wait for their latest kit. Normally, their kit will be sold out within 1 week after published, normally 2 or 3 days. I think they only take the money belongs to them, and sell that kit with really reasonable profit to help their company grow and run well.

After the establishment of their good reputation of the Diy Zone, their growing and critical fans gradually ask Diy Zone to propose the higher level machine with all perfect components, such as transformer, chassis, capacitors, resistor, etc. Of course, Alpha series is one of them. Per their fans demand, their kit includes the perfect chassis, and other flawless unassembled components, meanwhile they control the price within reasonable prices. As usual, the project sold out within couple days. Some of them had already completed it and discussed the machine on the website.

The above is what I known, just my own opinion. Actually, I am glad that we can find such a website to help me complete my machine. The Diy Zone really help those guys to put their dreams into practice. Of course, all their operation must comply with your statement (I do not know it well.). Please also kindly advice me whether their operation do violates your criteria or not. If this is the case, please let me know the detail so that I can have it public to eliminate the misunderstanding.
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Old 12th May 2004, 06:11 PM   #18
The one and only
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I repeat this sort of statement fairly often. People are welcome
to use the intellectual property that I publish on a not-for-profit
basis. This means that the effort is for the benefit of the
community of DIYers, and if money is left over from group-buys
or other such activities, it should be donated to diyAudio or
similar not-for-profit efforts, leaving enough left over for a
six-pack of beer

As far as I can see, DIYZONE operates for profit, however slim,
and seems to make a claim that they have been granted
permission by me to use my name and intellectual property.

They have not been granted such permission, and I am given
to understand that they have made additional statements
which are not necessarily flattering to me or my organization,
and has registered some of my trademarks in Taiwan. I do not
read the language, so I only know what people tell me. In any
case, I have left it to the discretion of my distributor in Taiwan to
take legal action as he sees fit.

I am doing too well economically for this to really impact me
personally, but I think it creates damage to the overall DIY
community as it makes other designers more reluctant to
share information. In this regard, DIYZONE does a general
disservice. It's too bad, because I am remarkably easy to
get along with, and it doesn't take all that much for people
to get what they want legitimately.
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Old 12th May 2004, 11:35 PM   #19
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Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Columbia, SC
I categorize DIYZONE with mosquitoes, ticks, and leeches...bloodsuckers. It's enough to put up with barbaric behavior here. Having them in the mix is more than I care to deal with.

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Old 13th May 2004, 01:35 AM   #20
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Default Thanks you.

Dear Mr. Nelson Pass,

Thanks for your explicit explanation. Now I know that the problem is focusing on the profit. Its not allowed for an organization to sell the kit which was designed based on your designation, or even with your brand name for profit although its really slim (Please correct me if wrong). In addition, its unforgivable for them to register some of my trademarks in Taiwan (I will try to verify it.). I will post our discussion on their website in Chinese, including the mosquitoes, ticks, and leeches (Dear Mr. GRollins. You really thought me many vocabularies).

Its really a pity to come to this end for this incident. I will try my best to transfer your message to the key person in Diy Zone without deviation, and seek for any measure to have the unhappy incident come to the better end. Sorry for the disturbance to you all, and thanks for your patience to reply me.

B. Regards,

Charlie Wu
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