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Old 16th August 2014, 05:46 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazed2 View Post
Is size an issue?
with 130wpc you need lots of sinks or a powerful fan
Here is mine, I'm able to bias to 145W
Click the image to open in full size.

It has a ton of bass capability but there is also 1.1F of caps between the two monoblocks.
Click the image to open in full size.

I would go all the up to 50V rails, it give you a bit more leeway.
With the amount of power your going after you also need a soft start and a slow charge circuit to go with it.
Isn't size always an issue

First off though, amazing looking amps! You should be proud.

I'm trying for a slim/sexy chassis as much as possible. I might need to scale up my overall size to accept more heatsinks, so your input would be appreciated.

What sizes are your sinks? And supplier? How well do your amps hold temp?

What size transformer and and what voltage for your secondaries?

I'm not familiar with a slow charge circuit.

What was the determining factor for your volume of capacitance? As an example Pass Labs XA160 monoblock has 150kuF. I thought if I used 176kuF I would be doing great!

Thanks again for your comments.
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Old 16th August 2014, 06:11 AM   #12
BigE is offline BigE  Canada
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I will be using 176mF per channel. I think that there is diminishing returns above that. Of course, it won't be worse, but is 550mF that much better?
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Old 16th August 2014, 11:32 PM   #13
dazed2 is offline dazed2  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coasttocoast View Post
Isn't size always an issue

First off though, amazing looking amps! You should be proud.

I'm trying for a slim/sexy chassis as much as possible. I might need to scale up my overall size to accept more heatsinks, so your input would be appreciated.

What sizes are your sinks? And supplier? How well do your amps hold temp?

What size transformer and and what voltage for your secondaries?

I'm not familiar with a slow charge circuit.

What was the determining factor for your volume of capacitance? As an example Pass Labs XA160 monoblock has 150kuF. I thought if I used 176kuF I would be doing great!

Thanks again for your comments.
Thanks for the compliment. They sound great too!

Well unless you turn your heatsinks in and create a tunnel for the fan to blow through, you're going to need bigger heatsinks.
I'm using heatsink USA's largest ones , the 3" fins and 10" wide and 10" long X 4!
At 145w bias its able to hold about 20C above ambient.

I'm using a 1400va trafo with 39v secondaries for a 51v rail.

A slow charge circuit needs to be used to slowly charge the cap bank. When you use such massive amounts of caps a soft start will not be able to handle the in rush. Thus a slow charge circuit needs to be used after the transformer in order to limit the voltage and current spike from the caps on turn on. This is a must.... It tried just using a soft start and I kept blowing fuses, thermistors, and resistors and even fusing relays.....

I came up with an appx amount of caps from experience building the f5. When I used the stock amount I found that it didn't give me enough bass and bass control. When I doubled it it had much more bass depth and control.

Point of dimishing return for caps? I haven't found it yet.
When BigE finally decides to finish his amp with the cap bank he says is enough, and races it with mine and the bass and control and slam is the same, then I'll concede.... But until then
I'm sticking with what I have
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Old 16th August 2014, 11:43 PM   #14
a.wayne is offline a.wayne  United States
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Yes sir , nothing like a good cap bank shootout....


.
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Old 17th August 2014, 12:38 AM   #15
alazira is offline alazira  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coasttocoast View Post
...Is it not worth the money for the Mundorf caps?
I like the mundorf's. You can save $ by just using them as the final caps in the bank.
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Old 17th August 2014, 07:22 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazed2 View Post
Thanks for the compliment. They sound great too!

Well unless you turn your heatsinks in and create a tunnel for the fan to blow through, you're going to need bigger heatsinks.
I'm using heatsink USA's largest ones , the 3" fins and 10" wide and 10" long X 4!
At 145w bias its able to hold about 20C above ambient.

I'm using a 1400va trafo with 39v secondaries for a 51v rail.

A slow charge circuit needs to be used to slowly charge the cap bank. When you use such massive amounts of caps a soft start will not be able to handle the in rush. Thus a slow charge circuit needs to be used after the transformer in order to limit the voltage and current spike from the caps on turn on. This is a must.... It tried just using a soft start and I kept blowing fuses, thermistors, and resistors and even fusing relays.....

I came up with an appx amount of caps from experience building the f5. When I used the stock amount I found that it didn't give me enough bass and bass control. When I doubled it it had much more bass depth and control.

Point of dimishing return for caps? I haven't found it yet.
When BigE finally decides to finish his amp with the cap bank he says is enough, and races it with mine and the bass and control and slam is the same, then I'll concede.... But until then
I'm sticking with what I have
Thanks for the information. Back to the drawing board on how I planned for these to look. But I think I have an idea that will work. I would rather not have a fan so this will be better in the end.

Based on your stated capacitance I'm assuming 68,000uF each? Any advise on what worked for you? What about Kendeil?

I see you and BigE are both in the same city, a shoutout is possible!
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Old 17th August 2014, 07:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alazira View Post
I like the mundorf's. You can save $ by just using them as the final caps in the bank.
Great idea, thanks.
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Old 18th August 2014, 04:11 AM   #18
dazed2 is offline dazed2  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coasttocoast View Post
Thanks for the information. Back to the drawing board on how I planned for these to look. But I think I have an idea that will work. I would rather not have a fan so this will be better in the end.

Based on your stated capacitance I'm assuming 68,000uF each? Any advise on what worked for you? What about Kendeil?

I see you and BigE are both in the same city, a shoutout is possible!
The ones I used, as you see in the pics are 47000uF 63V Kendeils. There are 4 more in the amp box, for a total of 12 per mono.

Click the image to open in full size.
If you are only planning to use 40V rails you can get away with 50V versions they would be cheaper.

I can't comment on how different caps would compare to the Kendeils as I haven't tried others,,,, too expensive to try. But I can tell you the end result is quite impressive.
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Old 23rd August 2014, 01:18 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazed2 View Post
The ones I used, as you see in the pics are 47000uF 63V Kendeils. There are 4 more in the amp box, for a total of 12 per mono.

Click the image to open in full size.
If you are only planning to use 40V rails you can get away with 50V versions they would be cheaper.

I can't comment on how different caps would compare to the Kendeils as I haven't tried others,,,, too expensive to try. But I can tell you the end result is quite impressive.
Thanks for the reply!

I was planning around 48v rails, but to be safe I'll buy +63v caps. Still looking.

Was it just physical space of layout that you put some of the caps in the other chassis?

My heat sinks arrive next week, so I can get started on the chassis.
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Old 23rd August 2014, 04:52 AM   #20
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Default First sketch

Here is my first outline of the pair of monoblocks. The inside dimension of the chassis I'll be building is 10 3/8" (264mm) wide x 18 1/2" (470mm) deep x 11" (280mm) tall. The heatsinks are from Heatsink USA and the tracking shows delivery Monday. I'll be ganging up 36 pcs x 5" (127mm) tall of the 4.600" (117mm) serrated heatsinks.

All the boards are from the DIY store.

To focus on the chassis size/building first I have roughly decided on Plitron 1.5k trans, 38v secondaries, 4ea Rifa 63v, 82,000uF caps, and 8 ea Mundof AG 63v, 15,000uF caps per monoblock, but not ordered yet. My vampire speaker connectors, Cardas balanced inputs, and IEC sockets are in so I can get the aluminum work out of the way first.

I need to get soft start and speaker protection boards too (not shown) I should have plenty of room.

I'm on a crash course to amp building so all guidance is appreciated!

image.jpg
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Last edited by Coasttocoast; 23rd August 2014 at 05:09 AM.
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