Thank you, sir. I shall order it.
The one I have in front of me measures about ten gauge on a wire size template. It has five bundles.
Here we go...
Could not be as simple as looping some litz, could it? Darn! That would be easy. So, its to be one long continuous single wire that is looped for it to work. Doesn't soldering one end of the loop break up the single strand effect?
I suppose if looks are not important its OK to be left unwrapped and left in a circular configuration? Or, is making it into a straight tail a needed part of its effect? I can see why for commercial reasons he would want to wrap that up to look straight and neat.
Thanks again! Gene
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Since the Ground Control is to go on the negative terminal? I have what I believe may be a pertinent question. One that I have wondered about in the past, but never saw it as a need to know issue.
On my DAC there is a polarity reversal switch. Before going with the DAC, I used to reverse the polarity at the speaker terminals if it was called for. I find that with my present set up polarity reversal is needed. I believe it accomplishes that by adding an extra op amp into the circuit to give it an odd number of op's.
Now.. If the polarity switch of of the DAC has been set to reverse polarity? Does that mean that the amp outputs now see a reversed order, and is working as if I had reversed the speaker wires? Negative becomes as the positive, etc? Something tells me it does not work that way. But? If these loops are needed to be on the negative terminal of the amp and speakers? It looks like its finally time to get a definitive answer to that question. Would you know how that works? Would I need to place the loop now on the positive terminal?
Thanks again.. Gene
On my DAC there is a polarity reversal switch. Before going with the DAC, I used to reverse the polarity at the speaker terminals if it was called for. I find that with my present set up polarity reversal is needed. I believe it accomplishes that by adding an extra op amp into the circuit to give it an odd number of op's.
Now.. If the polarity switch of of the DAC has been set to reverse polarity? Does that mean that the amp outputs now see a reversed order, and is working as if I had reversed the speaker wires? Negative becomes as the positive, etc? Something tells me it does not work that way. But? If these loops are needed to be on the negative terminal of the amp and speakers? It looks like its finally time to get a definitive answer to that question. Would you know how that works? Would I need to place the loop now on the positive terminal?
Thanks again.. Gene
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The phase of the signal arriving is not important. Regardless of the signal phase, the components still work the same way. There is still a charge between signal source and load, on the plus side, and in typical audio systems, no charge between load and ground. It is this lack of electrons on the negative side and typically, an uncontrolled mess of bimetallic connections and unknown and usually anti-audio dielectric materials, that strip backside of the wave form information from the emitted signal.
The loop of Litz wire does not have to be continuous. Made into a soldered end to soldered end loop, it is still an unterminated wave guide and signal will ring in it just fine. Even better when a bit of triboelectric "stiction" is provided to keep as many orbits in the copper filled as possible. Electrons seethe and we want them to seethe here, to increase the chances of the signal finding an electron, during the stasis moment while vector is changing, near a dielectric material that will not reject low level signal elements. Since this is such a "friendly" environment, compared to the impedance to ground, both electrons and signal will find their way into the loop. A more complete signal will be pulled back out of the loop, to provide the back half of the wave form information, regardless of the phase of the signal with regard to the original source, in some unknown land across the seas, through time.....
Bud
The loop of Litz wire does not have to be continuous. Made into a soldered end to soldered end loop, it is still an unterminated wave guide and signal will ring in it just fine. Even better when a bit of triboelectric "stiction" is provided to keep as many orbits in the copper filled as possible. Electrons seethe and we want them to seethe here, to increase the chances of the signal finding an electron, during the stasis moment while vector is changing, near a dielectric material that will not reject low level signal elements. Since this is such a "friendly" environment, compared to the impedance to ground, both electrons and signal will find their way into the loop. A more complete signal will be pulled back out of the loop, to provide the back half of the wave form information, regardless of the phase of the signal with regard to the original source, in some unknown land across the seas, through time.....
Bud
That means I can simply tin two ends of a length of litz. Solder the ends together, and it will accomplish that same as winding that loop from a single wire?
I was thinking of tinning two ends of about 8-12 inches of litz, and then soldering the ends together. Making a litz bracelet. I have some old Aprature banana plugs look like this.
Before soldering the ends together I would put the litz through the hole, and then solder the ends together. I would make sure that the tinned section makes contact with the metal screw down.
Would that work?
Will I still need some shrink wrap placed like in the picture in 6 Moons? Is that shrink wrap (from what I understand) essential? Or, am I asking too many wrong questions?
Thank you, Gene
Questions are fine, plan is good, one loop per plug. Shrink tube is VERY helpful but don't make the pieces longer than 0.6" and no more than three and if you have too much high frequency boost slit two of the pieces lengthwise.... that's right, down their length, preferably after shrinking them and with a roller blade razor knife, so you don't cut the wires, probably. Once you get proficient you can actually tune the things to suit specific drivers, something I do for the expensive drivers folks from around the world send me for EnABL treatment, not that there are hundreds by any means.
Bud
Bud
So, shrink tubing acts like a treble control with the loop. Does that also apply to the wires inside the speaker running from the crossover? If I ran litz to the tweeters, and the litz was completely covered by shrink tubing? That can alter the high end response? Or, does that only apply to the way the loop works?
This is better than science fiction!
Thank you, Gene
Shrink tubing acts like a color or chromeance control in a TV. It changes phase subtly and then drastically. When the sound field is vertical from your listening spot, without overhang or lay back in the illusion of the presentation, you have just a little bit too much un-slit to slit. We are adding information to an area not usually dealt with and this information "fills out" the presentation, but it doesn't make high frequencies rise, so much as it brings them forward in the illusion of 3D space, and then into your lap. Lousy dancer too.
Bud
Bud
I have a pair of older B&W Rock Solids that I rewired. Sounds like if I remove the shrink wrap from the tweeter wires ( wired with litz) that the high end emphasis I am hearing may diminish. It did have a 3D effect that I found novel and exciting in a way. But, it could wear on me after a time. It was interesting, but not real.
Typical polymer jackets speaker wires are wrapped in do not have the same effect?
Hmmmmmmm. And, thank you.
Gene
Surface and in phase volume to dielectric is the key. Typical wire is not insulated and so it's effective surface area and volume are quite low compared to type 2 Litz. Litz just has a near perfect dielectric, it's everywhere and very thin and close to the conductor which has no skin effect at 20Khz. The shrink tube just adds to taste.
Bud
Bud
Made 2 loops with banana plugs. First went on the speakers. It took away a certain muddy warmth. The instruments began to take up more solid space, more like a true live performance. I was not sure I liked it because the speakers were no longer compensating with a certain coloration that is common to speakers. One that the designers probably fine tune to their tastes.
Stopped after a short listen to have dinner. Then, made two more loops. These went on the small amp I use. This time a balance was there between the bottom and top that did not happen when the loops were on the speakers alone.
I like what I hear in a sense that it now sounds closer to a real live performance. No drama. Just more like what real music can sound like when played by professional relaxed musicians.
Its late. Next I will have to try this set up with another set of speakers that I am familiar with to see what changes I will notice with them.
I am not sure what to think at this point because the loops improve the music in one way, yet they more clearly reveal the deficiency of the speaker. The more it begins to sound like real music, the more you can tell how the speaker is failing to produce what should be real.
I know it is anathema to some here. But, I utilize very judiciously a Barcus Berry Sound Maximizer. Especially, because I have small speakers and the BBE I find can extend the bottom end just enough in a very convincingly good way. I do not like having a sub woofer because of the lack of time coherency, and they tend to produce bass out of proportion to the rest of the music. The BBE always adds a palpable sense of what I consider realism in what I hear. It works very well with the loops. No drama. All interconnects are litz.
Thanks, Bud...
Gene
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There are materials in which the electrons tend to align their spins in harmony. Certain people don't like putting such materials near their audio signals because they complain that they are magnetic and therefore a Bad Thing.
Let's just suppose for one weird moment that this Litz wire gizmo actually does change the sound. How does it do it? It is a fairly good RF conductor so it will act as an efficient resonator/antenna at UHF frequencies. It is likely to change (up or down) the amount of cell-phone or Wi-Fi signal getting into the equipment, which may change the sound (for better or worse). The length is supposed to be critical so that tends to confirm this hypothesis. Better screening or RF suppression might be a better engineering solution, but then people don't write "poetry" about stoppers or RF low pass filters. Other people won't be able to charge real money for a bit of wire with a spade lug on the end.
Let's just suppose for one weird moment that this Litz wire gizmo actually does change the sound. How does it do it? It is a fairly good RF conductor so it will act as an efficient resonator/antenna at UHF frequencies. It is likely to change (up or down) the amount of cell-phone or Wi-Fi signal getting into the equipment, which may change the sound (for better or worse). The length is supposed to be critical so that tends to confirm this hypothesis. Better screening or RF suppression might be a better engineering solution, but then people don't write "poetry" about stoppers or RF low pass filters. Other people won't be able to charge real money for a bit of wire with a spade lug on the end.
I read an thread in Stereophile where someone tried the loops with different amplification. With a system he had with star grounding he could hear no difference. But, in another system without star, he heard a difference.
Had more time to let this settle in. What I sense (not hear so much) is the effect one experiences when the power goes out. A quiet comes over the room. Some have told me its because I do not hear any electronic appliances working. But, I am talking about where no alliances were to begin with. There is a palatable silence when all electricity stops flowing through the walls. It can not be heard so much, as sensed. The loops cause this kind of a subtle effect when listening to the music. Its the way I have decided to define it.
Last night I found myself for the first time emotionally involved with a high quality video in a way I had not before the loops were connected. Before, I always found myself amused and entertained. But, not having that emotional connection as being in the audience and going with the flow of the music.
Its another answer to be added in to the formula. I wonder what else is out there to improve things. If I were a person of a certain mind set I would have easily passed the loops by as quackery.
Had more time to let this settle in. What I sense (not hear so much) is the effect one experiences when the power goes out. A quiet comes over the room. Some have told me its because I do not hear any electronic appliances working. But, I am talking about where no alliances were to begin with. There is a palatable silence when all electricity stops flowing through the walls. It can not be heard so much, as sensed. The loops cause this kind of a subtle effect when listening to the music. Its the way I have decided to define it.
Last night I found myself for the first time emotionally involved with a high quality video in a way I had not before the loops were connected. Before, I always found myself amused and entertained. But, not having that emotional connection as being in the audience and going with the flow of the music.
Its another answer to be added in to the formula. I wonder what else is out there to improve things. If I were a person of a certain mind set I would have easily passed the loops by as quackery.
Bud, this is a very lengthy thread. Its also an older one, so much of it I have not read.
I just read a comment about critical length and you did not question it. I see now in an early post that the litz should be 150 mm before looped. Is that length critical? That's about six inches. The loop should be about 3 inches long with the final product. Is it critical? I think what I have is now about 4 inches. I made sure to make the shrink tubing not more than .6 inches.
This one requires patience and doing lots of listening. Then, removing the loops after you have acclimated to them, and see if you notice a change. Piano overtones have a noticable difference on certain recordings from where I sit.
In the mean time. Keeping an open mind.
Critical? Not so much, unless you have EnABL'd the drivers, then very critical. The rough equivalent for a noticeable change is a 2 foot long loop of zip cord, with about 2 inches of insulation removed and those bare copper ends twisted together. You will not get as well controlled a result from this, but it has proven to be audible for the many who had the courage to try it out. Some did not like the change but were prompted by the unbelievability and surprise,that there was any change, to try a more sophisticated approach. Their are many such tales buried in this thread. And if you think this is a lengthy thread take a quick look at this one, another bit of snake oil I have offered for free to any who will mix it up for themselves.
EnABL Processes - diyAudio
I am so evil.....
The overall length of the Ground Control and of the other loops that diy folks made for themselves has been 6 inches in length, so a three inch stub. To date only Sy, who has a fully differential system without direct reference to ground and a fellow in NZ who has a ground plate in his preamp have spoken up about their lack of audible change. The commercial GC's have always had a 30 day money back guarantee, we have received zero back and that is from many thousands sold, and we told the dealers to take them back regardless of the time frame involved.
Bud
EnABL Processes - diyAudio
I am so evil.....
The overall length of the Ground Control and of the other loops that diy folks made for themselves has been 6 inches in length, so a three inch stub. To date only Sy, who has a fully differential system without direct reference to ground and a fellow in NZ who has a ground plate in his preamp have spoken up about their lack of audible change. The commercial GC's have always had a 30 day money back guarantee, we have received zero back and that is from many thousands sold, and we told the dealers to take them back regardless of the time frame involved.
Bud
I could detect a difference. Only slightly. Yet it could have come from the fact I was listening at different times in the day. Not sure if I did like what I heard at first I did not with only on the speakers, but I did notice a very positive effect when I used two on the speakers, and two on the amp outputs. That may have been attributed to other factors. Again, I will have to have patience with this.
But, I can recall that I definitely did notice one thing. Or, imagined I did. When listening to a jazz drummer in concert playing his ride cymbal, there was a difference noticed after putting the loops onto the speaker terminals. I know cymbal sounds very well. There was a change. Was it better? It all depends upon what that cymbal actually sounded like to the mic...
But, be that as it may. I will listen some more with, and without. I may try the zip wire route, as well. In the mean time I was without liquid flux so I improvised a new way to tin the ends of litz using only Radio Shack gel flux. I also found out one mistake I used to make was to start using the solder pot right after the solder in the pot melted. I now realize that I should allow that pot continue heating up for a while. Then use it. I waited about 10-15 minutes.
Last week I rewired a robot by taking out the old zip and redoing everything. He now speaks with a litz.
3 inches of any conductor when grounded to a lump of metal (such as a chassis) will have a quarter-wave resonance somewhere around 950MHz. The exact figure would depend on any dielectric loading from the shrink-wrap, and the Litz insulation, which would tend to reduce the frequency. Let's say 900MHz. Isn't that near a cell phone band?BudP said:
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