So long as you use 60/40 lead tin solder instead of the ROHS horror show stuff you should be fine. You might want to look for an alcohol solvent liquid flux and mix it as a weak tea color with 99.99% pure isopropyl alcohol.
This will ablate the insulation, literally blow it off of the wire and you will get very quick dipping times. This is especially important with fine wire Litz cables (AWG # 38 and smaller, larger numerically). The 450 degrees is a little bit cool for quick dipping of Litz cable, but with the ablation of the coating with flux, you will be fine. Keep the wire in the solder until brown goo quits rising to the top, and drag the wire to distribute the burning goo behind it. No open flames here, but you want as clean a surface as possible and this will help. When you remove the cable squeeze the soldered end between two cotton shop rag surfaces to expel the remaining solder and goo. Use a steel spoon to lightly scrape the top of the solder, periodically, to remove this stuff.
The ROHS solder has to be around 620 deg to effectively strip Litz wire and it still looks and acts like a cold solder situation, so just don't go there.
Bud
This will ablate the insulation, literally blow it off of the wire and you will get very quick dipping times. This is especially important with fine wire Litz cables (AWG # 38 and smaller, larger numerically). The 450 degrees is a little bit cool for quick dipping of Litz cable, but with the ablation of the coating with flux, you will be fine. Keep the wire in the solder until brown goo quits rising to the top, and drag the wire to distribute the burning goo behind it. No open flames here, but you want as clean a surface as possible and this will help. When you remove the cable squeeze the soldered end between two cotton shop rag surfaces to expel the remaining solder and goo. Use a steel spoon to lightly scrape the top of the solder, periodically, to remove this stuff.
The ROHS solder has to be around 620 deg to effectively strip Litz wire and it still looks and acts like a cold solder situation, so just don't go there.
Bud
Hmmm. So this seems like a longer dip that I expected. What happens to the shrink tubing while dipping? Or do you dip each end individually, then solder together in the usual way? Every time I've played with this (with Litz wire) Iv'e ended up with a blob of shrink tubing (the least of my problems trying this so far)...
Also, I use mostly silver solder as I really don't support using lead unless it's absolutely necessary (maybe this is a case, but we'll see). I'm handicapped enough intellectually without exposing myself (and my young kids) to lead solder fumes.
Also, I use mostly silver solder as I really don't support using lead unless it's absolutely necessary (maybe this is a case, but we'll see). I'm handicapped enough intellectually without exposing myself (and my young kids) to lead solder fumes.
I don't think you will find the out gas from a eutectic process to provide much in the way of air borne danger, from lead. That is the reason for running a solder pot just a little above the eutectic point of the solder. The burning polyester and nylon are a hazard, but unless you are going to make these things commercially, even that is not an issue. Now, stench, that can and does present a problem. You should ventilate your work station and expel the gasses to the outside, to kill birds, mosquitoes and the ever present cat ,eying your flower bed dirt as a receptacle for it's own oxygen reduction process waste.
You will need a much hotter solder pot than what Alex is pointing to and the silver solder does eat the iron from the pot walls, at a remarkable pace. On the other hand, once you have used lead/tin you cannot switch to silver/tin and hope to keep the impurities from showing up in the EU test cycle. We have carefully segregated solder facilities for the two types.
Don't apply the shrink tubing to the wire until after you are done with the solder pot. Buy a $20 heat gun from Chicago Electric through one of the big box tool sellers like Harbor Freight.
Bud
You will need a much hotter solder pot than what Alex is pointing to and the silver solder does eat the iron from the pot walls, at a remarkable pace. On the other hand, once you have used lead/tin you cannot switch to silver/tin and hope to keep the impurities from showing up in the EU test cycle. We have carefully segregated solder facilities for the two types.
Don't apply the shrink tubing to the wire until after you are done with the solder pot. Buy a $20 heat gun from Chicago Electric through one of the big box tool sellers like Harbor Freight.
Bud
As usual Bud's post sums things up well.
It gets the job done but with more of a sizzle than a bang.
Certainly a lot safer than the method I described earlier in the thread.
Cheers,
Alex
Being more of a scientist than a magician, I really appreciate your list! Great stuff - serious but humorous at the same time! Don't forget to add 'green marker on CD's' and 'removing or bypassing manufacturer-specified parts because you don't undertand the function'.
I have just stumbled upon this today, and read the entire thread. I admit, this stuff had me laughing out loud at times 
But being an open-minded person that I am, I had to try it myself. For the lack of proper magnet wire, I decided to follow one early suggestion about using coils - i had two dual Panasonic PLK1077 coils lying about, so soldered a wire to join their pins in a loop and then soldered it to my amp's ground terminals.
I honestly expected no improvement, firstly because this is just so crazy, and secondly because my "electron pool" doesn't even follow the proper recipe... In fact, I was half-expecting the sound to be worse because of magnetic inductors near the speaker cables.
But after playing the first song I could definitely hear no detoriation, and after playing a few more I can hear that the sound is smoother and quiet details are easier to hear. But this is not a big improvement, and if I heard this a few years ago I would have probably doubted my own hearing. Now I learned to trust my ears, so I can confidently say the improvement is there, only very small.
Still, this is enough to convince me to buy some magnet wire and play around with it.
But being an open-minded person that I am, I had to try it myself. For the lack of proper magnet wire, I decided to follow one early suggestion about using coils - i had two dual Panasonic PLK1077 coils lying about, so soldered a wire to join their pins in a loop and then soldered it to my amp's ground terminals.
I honestly expected no improvement, firstly because this is just so crazy, and secondly because my "electron pool" doesn't even follow the proper recipe... In fact, I was half-expecting the sound to be worse because of magnetic inductors near the speaker cables.
But after playing the first song I could definitely hear no detoriation, and after playing a few more I can hear that the sound is smoother and quiet details are easier to hear. But this is not a big improvement, and if I heard this a few years ago I would have probably doubted my own hearing. Now I learned to trust my ears, so I can confidently say the improvement is there, only very small.
Still, this is enough to convince me to buy some magnet wire and play around with it.
Welcome home Leon!
Now, for some more mind stretching gobbledygook come and visit us over here.
EnABL - Listening impressions & techniques - diyAudio
Listening impressions are what are provided, along with "how to".
And then you can read all about it here. There are even some recent tests that point to there being a real phenomena amongst all of the mass hypnosis and snake oil bathing. Of course, they do come from a guy in Switzerland, so probably, it's just more gobbledygook huh?
EnABL - Technical discussion - diyAudio
As for denizens from this locale spreading out into the land of orderly predestination, there is even some poor fool who uses a nine volt battery, negative lug only thank goodness, attached to various non bodily functions parts, and also to some of his audio stuff too, just to see if it will make a difference. A lot of people have had their fun from this here.
Tweakers' Asylum - ground tweak - unclestu - December 26, 2010 at 21:38:19
It is good that you were treated to laughter. Good for the soul and family relationships. But, do follow your own maxim and provide us with another gew-gaw to wonder over. There are a lot of us here, in the land of placebo, who need some entertainment and some awesome thoughts to help us remember why we keep on smoking this stuff.
So again Unc, welcome home.
Bud
Now, for some more mind stretching gobbledygook come and visit us over here.
EnABL - Listening impressions & techniques - diyAudio
Listening impressions are what are provided, along with "how to".
And then you can read all about it here. There are even some recent tests that point to there being a real phenomena amongst all of the mass hypnosis and snake oil bathing. Of course, they do come from a guy in Switzerland, so probably, it's just more gobbledygook huh?
EnABL - Technical discussion - diyAudio
As for denizens from this locale spreading out into the land of orderly predestination, there is even some poor fool who uses a nine volt battery, negative lug only thank goodness, attached to various non bodily functions parts, and also to some of his audio stuff too, just to see if it will make a difference. A lot of people have had their fun from this here.
Tweakers' Asylum - ground tweak - unclestu - December 26, 2010 at 21:38:19
It is good that you were treated to laughter. Good for the soul and family relationships. But, do follow your own maxim and provide us with another gew-gaw to wonder over. There are a lot of us here, in the land of placebo, who need some entertainment and some awesome thoughts to help us remember why we keep on smoking this stuff.
So again Unc, welcome home.
Bud
Thanks Bud I have actually read about EnABL before. I think I will be buying a kit sometime soon. What put me off so far is that I couldn't find one complete, consistent guide how to do it. Or do you get one with the kit?
Anyway, back to the crazy electron pool - is there any particular type of magnet wire that is preferable over others? I have these types to choose from:
Enamelled Copper Magnet Winding Wire
And alternatively silk covered 99.99% silver wire.
Has anyone done any research in this particular direction? If not, I suppose I can buy a few different types, make identical loops and try them pro bono publico. And bono privato of course, because I'll get to choose the best one
Also, what about different loop sizes? Any solid data here?
I have actually read about EnABL before. I think I will be buying a kit sometime soon. What put me off so far is that I couldn't find one complete, consistent guide how to do it. Or do you get one with the kit?Anyway, back to the crazy electron pool - is there any particular type of magnet wire that is preferable over others? I have these types to choose from:
Enamelled Copper Magnet Winding Wire
And alternatively silk covered 99.99% silver wire.
Has anyone done any research in this particular direction? If not, I suppose I can buy a few different types, make identical loops and try them pro bono publico. And bono privato of course, because I'll get to choose the best one
Also, what about different loop sizes? Any solid data here?
Thanks Bud
Anyway, back to the crazy electron pool - is there any particular type of magnet wire that is preferable over others? I have these types to choose from:
Enamelled Copper Magnet Winding Wire
And alternatively silk covered 99.99% silver wire.
Has anyone done any research in this particular direction? If not, I suppose I can buy a few different types, make identical loops and try them pro bono publico. And bono privato of course, because I'll get to choose the best one
Also, what about different loop sizes? Any solid data here?
Early on I tried VH Audio cotton covered silver which I think is 28ga, but only had enough to do loops of about 25 strands. My later efforts using enamelled 36 ga copper using 100 + strands was far superior, but I put this down to the greater number of finer strands rather than the quality of materials.
Rob
Curious... I believe I read that you mentioned that litz with the thread dialetric dulled the sound. Correct? Is that in regards to using litz for speaker wires in general? Or, in regards to the loop only?
Thanks, Gene
Type 2 Litz wire, with dielectric coatings on every wire, is not enough by itself. Using the Litz, in speaker cables, interconnects and Ground Control (electron pools +) will all need a bit more dielectric. Woven cotton tube is not enough, but the plastic plus cotton tubes have too much and it is the wrong kind. You need low constant, low threshold material and shrink tubing is perfect.
Bud
Bud
Thanks, Bud.
Not sure if I have type one, or two. I purchased it years ago from a speaker designer who had it in bulk.
For my speaker runs? It appears I should get some long heat shrink tubing and pull off the cotton wrap. You are saying its only needed on the + side? The negative side can be left alone? I am listening nearfield and the speaker runs are only about four feet a side. I believe that is type 1, but I am not sure.
With other speakers that I had internally rewired in the past, I ended up doing the following. The litz I have is around 10 gauge. I needed to separate the cable into its smaller bundles within the wire. That way I could fit the wire into the holes found on the crossover board. I put heat shrink on those wires. I had no idea it would be a good thing.
I have some litz in a box with the cotton still on it that I had coated with liquid rubber.The kind of stuff you use to dip pliers into to give them grip handles. Looks like that was not a smart idea. At the time I figured it would offer better protection to the longer runs of litz running to the speakers across the room. I can always strip that off when need be.
So glad I found this forum.
Thanks, Gene
Last edited:
This is a very long thread that started quite some time ago. I noticed various lengths of loops were being described, depending upon the application. I did not see any recommended length for the speaker and amp terminals. Is it critical for an exact length? Just loop a wire and solder both ends together, then shrink wrap? How long the loop? Sorry. But its a very long thread. I am sure this was answered somewhere. I can't find for the amp and speaker terminals.
Thanks, Gene
Thanks, Gene
Tinning litz. Did it years ago. No longer have what was recommended in liquid flux.
Here are a few liquid flux products I can order online.
Can someone please, tell me which they think would be the best for tinning litz using a solder pot? Or, they all good?
Thanks..
Liquid Solder Flux, 2 oz. | 20-1100 (201100) | Distributed By MCM
Liquid Solder Flux, 2 Oz Bottle | eBay
Browsing Store - Liquid Rosin Solder Flux, 2 oz
Here are a few liquid flux products I can order online.
Can someone please, tell me which they think would be the best for tinning litz using a solder pot? Or, they all good?
Thanks..
Liquid Solder Flux, 2 oz. | 20-1100 (201100) | Distributed By MCM
Liquid Solder Flux, 2 Oz Bottle | eBay
Browsing Store - Liquid Rosin Solder Flux, 2 oz
I would use the third one and cut it to a weak tea color with 99% pure isopropyl alcohol. This will ablate the coating on 100% of the wires in coated Litz wire.
True type 2 can be told by there being three twisted bundles that make up the whole twisted bundle. Type 1 Litz is just a large twisted bundle. The reason for using the stuff is it is a low proximity effect conductor. Takes laying it across a power transformer core before it will pick up anything or be affected by external capacitive coupling to unwanted substances, like Nylon carpet etc.
If your Litz has cotton selving on it that's great! If you have the equivalent of around 18 gauge solid core in circular mils then use very short pieces of shrink tube, like 3 pcs 0.6" long for a 6 inch long piece of wire, folded into a loop and soldered together. If you look on 6 moons for the review of Ground Control one of the "individuals" decided to cut one open and show how it was made, for free. I don't have anything good to say about that person, but I don't bother cursing idiots either, knowing they just cannot help themselves. In any event you will see quite clearly how they are made.
Bud
True type 2 can be told by there being three twisted bundles that make up the whole twisted bundle. Type 1 Litz is just a large twisted bundle. The reason for using the stuff is it is a low proximity effect conductor. Takes laying it across a power transformer core before it will pick up anything or be affected by external capacitive coupling to unwanted substances, like Nylon carpet etc.
If your Litz has cotton selving on it that's great! If you have the equivalent of around 18 gauge solid core in circular mils then use very short pieces of shrink tube, like 3 pcs 0.6" long for a 6 inch long piece of wire, folded into a loop and soldered together. If you look on 6 moons for the review of Ground Control one of the "individuals" decided to cut one open and show how it was made, for free. I don't have anything good to say about that person, but I don't bother cursing idiots either, knowing they just cannot help themselves. In any event you will see quite clearly how they are made.
Bud
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.