Apart from what Crashpc has stated, very correctly, ..... the situation in India is that 99 pct of the time, the wrong driver is placed in a poorly designed cabinet. Most cabinets are poorly copied designs of some famous brands, or some designs available off the net. Most of the people who use speakers have no clue of what T.S. parameters are, and more alarmingly the people selling these cabinet and driver are also clueless of the T.S. parameters of the drivers they are selling, creating a perfect recipe for disaster. I am from India, and I see this day in and day out.
Rademakers: It does load the driver quite a bit though, so if you put in weak cone driver, it can cause a problem. We might think of something like mid-range RCF/B&C drivers line, which are very rugged drivers with sturdy cones, then take it for grant, but that might not be the case in every application.
Some people use cheap-ish drivers with poorer design and materials, and problems might show up. What we see as „normal“ might not be in real life, if „all else is not equal“. Also drivers with poor TS params will not even utilize these types of boxes, playing even poorer, without the bass the box could produce with suited drivers. Hard to judge anything from one picture.
Some people use cheap-ish drivers with poorer design and materials, and problems might show up. What we see as „normal“ might not be in real life, if „all else is not equal“. Also drivers with poor TS params will not even utilize these types of boxes, playing even poorer, without the bass the box could produce with suited drivers. Hard to judge anything from one picture.
Crashpc and turk 182 could not have said it better. Crashpc got the picture right - weak motor drivers placed in a cabinet that needs drivers with strong motors. Turk 182 is right in asking for the measurements, since the OP states that he has designed the cabinet himself. I fairly certain that we will not be seeing any measurements coming our way.
Let me give you a example of the way things work in India. Take a look at this,
Ahuja Pa System World Co.
This driver has been in the Indian market since 2005-06. This company has sold thousands of drivers of various models (including this) to date. In Oct - Nov 2015 the company decided that they needed to introduce a Mid bass 15 inch driver because P audio was dumping "mid bass" 15 inch drivers at a throwaway price into the market and Ahuja could not keep up with the onslaught. So, Ahuja changed the cone, and the spider, and rebadged the driver as the 15MB500. Now, it's common knowledge that the T.S. parameters are bound to change once you change the cone and the spider. But, Ahuja goes ahead, changed the model nomenclature, but stick to the old parameters.
Ahuja
If you compare the T.S. you will find no change between the MB and the LF.
This is one of the few examples I can quote. I am not kidding when I say that the number of "RCF" drivers sold in India to date, has not been produced by " RCF" that is based in Italy. The number of fake RCF, B&C and Eighteen sound drivers that are available here will astound you. The question of putting the right driver into the right cabinet never arises.
Coming to the cabinet in question, I have seen a 18 inch version of the same, with the drivers ripped apart after just 3 hours of usage. That I why I stated that "the driver is under immense pressure" when placed in a cabinet like this.
Let me give you a example of the way things work in India. Take a look at this,
Ahuja Pa System World Co.
This driver has been in the Indian market since 2005-06. This company has sold thousands of drivers of various models (including this) to date. In Oct - Nov 2015 the company decided that they needed to introduce a Mid bass 15 inch driver because P audio was dumping "mid bass" 15 inch drivers at a throwaway price into the market and Ahuja could not keep up with the onslaught. So, Ahuja changed the cone, and the spider, and rebadged the driver as the 15MB500. Now, it's common knowledge that the T.S. parameters are bound to change once you change the cone and the spider. But, Ahuja goes ahead, changed the model nomenclature, but stick to the old parameters.
Ahuja
If you compare the T.S. you will find no change between the MB and the LF.
This is one of the few examples I can quote. I am not kidding when I say that the number of "RCF" drivers sold in India to date, has not been produced by " RCF" that is based in Italy. The number of fake RCF, B&C and Eighteen sound drivers that are available here will astound you. The question of putting the right driver into the right cabinet never arises.
Coming to the cabinet in question, I have seen a 18 inch version of the same, with the drivers ripped apart after just 3 hours of usage. That I why I stated that "the driver is under immense pressure" when placed in a cabinet like this.
Well, as you might now, I've also developed the Cubo-series, a very similar design to this but also designed and tested many variations on the known versions currently floating on the web. In all of which I've tried the strongest and weakest drivers (and many in between), many of them measured (freq. response) and tested on high and low power levels.
I've also had over a thousand e-mails of mostly feedback, so I'm inclined to say I'm fairly well informed on the matter. Even up to the point where I feel I can look at a similar design and give a pretty accurate prediction of it strengths and weaknesses.
Apart from needing the obvious high pass, as is common practice in most if not all PA-designs, I feel this particular design is fairly safe. Using the wrong driver can mean a very disappointing performance and/or sound quality but isn't that true for all PA-cabinets? Many people using the wrong driver for the job shouldn't be adhered to a cabinet-design, as part of it's characteristics.
In this particular design, I would say the flare rate of the segment located at the back, is too high, leading to an increase in output near 60 Hz. As 60-ish Hz is the most predominant frequency in almost all dance music, it can easily contribute to a fairly one-noted-sound. On the upside, it will perform fairly well with most dance music, as it puts an emphasis on the frequency present in any song.
In India, designs that have a similar focus (like the T18) seem to be used vividly.
Edit- I see your point about India's way of doing things and how things work over there but imo it seems mostly related to a lack of knowledge, of loudspeaker design and utilisation in general, and not just this specific cabinet.
Johan
I've also had over a thousand e-mails of mostly feedback, so I'm inclined to say I'm fairly well informed on the matter. Even up to the point where I feel I can look at a similar design and give a pretty accurate prediction of it strengths and weaknesses.
Apart from needing the obvious high pass, as is common practice in most if not all PA-designs, I feel this particular design is fairly safe. Using the wrong driver can mean a very disappointing performance and/or sound quality but isn't that true for all PA-cabinets? Many people using the wrong driver for the job shouldn't be adhered to a cabinet-design, as part of it's characteristics.
In this particular design, I would say the flare rate of the segment located at the back, is too high, leading to an increase in output near 60 Hz. As 60-ish Hz is the most predominant frequency in almost all dance music, it can easily contribute to a fairly one-noted-sound. On the upside, it will perform fairly well with most dance music, as it puts an emphasis on the frequency present in any song.
In India, designs that have a similar focus (like the T18) seem to be used vividly.
Edit- I see your point about India's way of doing things and how things work over there but imo it seems mostly related to a lack of knowledge, of loudspeaker design and utilisation in general, and not just this specific cabinet.
Johan
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You are thinking wrong I guess, we also used the driver like Precision device, etc. And we don't blindly used any cabinet.as every speaker vendor specify which cabinet will work for this speaker according that we make a plan...We only take free plans but don't make as it is of it...We make lots changes....
Ya we don't use RTA mic and frequency calculation after the cabinet build. As we are here minimum idea after hearing it will work in the market or not.
According to.me we don't any stimulation software to be use now. We exactly know how to deal with xmax of the speakers
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Really?
So let me recap: You only take free plans (or what the manufacturer advices), make lot's of changes, don't simulate it and don't measure afterwards but you're using Precision Devices and 18Sound, and you know exactly how to deal with Xmax?
If that is true your exactly proving my point. Not that it matters to me, just here to help.but hey, if it works for you, have fun!
So let me recap: You only take free plans (or what the manufacturer advices), make lot's of changes, don't simulate it and don't measure afterwards but you're using Precision Devices and 18Sound, and you know exactly how to deal with Xmax?
If that is true your exactly proving my point. Not that it matters to me, just here to help.but hey, if it works for you, have fun!
Our perception is not blind I guess.... Working with stimulators and working with ground reality of faar different. As you belong to other country.the way you guys are work is totally different from India. Pit I totally disagree with your point that Indians don't work fluently and they don't have proper knowledge as they all are using only Chinese products. Somewhere you totally wrong I just ask here in discussion about Next pro audios plan ideas that we can make better approx to them I never ask orgies al patient of it...If you are read my a msg.
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swapnilsound: Of course not. I don´t say that. We´re getting philosophical though, instead of factical.
People around the world are handy and dexterous. Including people in India
. I see. Worked that way before too! There is very little difference between us. I believe you could do what I/we can do. But you simply decide not to. That is very weird to me, and that puts you in great risk in not succeeding or making things less good than what it could be. You simply don´t know "enaugh" how the outcome ended up. Doesn´t mean it´s absolutely wrong, but it might not be right. Then, you cannot push yours on us without facts or proof. It simply doesn´t work like that.
Chinese production has not much to do with it. China can do good things, and also bad things. Hope you do well, and wish you some more of "striving for best" attitude.
People around the world are handy and dexterous. Including people in India
. I see. Worked that way before too! There is very little difference between us. I believe you could do what I/we can do. But you simply decide not to. That is very weird to me, and that puts you in great risk in not succeeding or making things less good than what it could be. You simply don´t know "enaugh" how the outcome ended up. Doesn´t mean it´s absolutely wrong, but it might not be right. Then, you cannot push yours on us without facts or proof. It simply doesn´t work like that. Chinese production has not much to do with it. China can do good things, and also bad things. Hope you do well, and wish you some more of "striving for best" attitude.
Are you looking for "L' Acoustics" or "LA-Acoustics"?
L-ACOUSTICS
I have never heard of the second one, but L'Acoustics from France is one of the largest names in PA equipment right now.
Their designs are proprietary so someone would have to buy one and dismantle it to get dimensions.
However they are very expensive and just don't sell to anyone (you have to buy the whole system). Anyone who has done this probably won't tear one apart and post details for people to copy as their may be legal ramifications.
Perhaps you could rent some and look it over?
You will discover that they aren't that complicated in design, but are based on very specific drivers and have a matching processor-amplifier to get their specific performance.
Just one by itself isn't going to do much, plan on building at least 8.
In fact they aren't considered the best subs available, but are the compliment to their line-array main systems (K1, Vdosc ARCS etc..)
If it is standalone subs you want then there are better units out there that are easier to build or buy.
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