i'm am definitely going to build these speakers.
but what did you think about moving the bass unit for the center speaker? to many unknowns that could go wrong?
because i think i am going to try it, if it sounds terribel i might have a few options for getting it messured
but my girlfriend disided she also wanted to have some influence on how the speaker ended up looking.
She came up with the idea of making the sides curved and i also quite like the idea(but not the ekstra work!) i showed her the german built speaker, those are beauties
I would make the frontbaffle and the internal volume the same. that should not be a problem since i dabble in the dark arts of math
the reason i ask is because i seem to remember reading on your website, that the resonans of the cabinet could change the sound.
but what did you think about moving the bass unit for the center speaker? to many unknowns that could go wrong?
because i think i am going to try it, if it sounds terribel i might have a few options for getting it messured
but my girlfriend disided she also wanted to have some influence on how the speaker ended up looking.
She came up with the idea of making the sides curved and i also quite like the idea(but not the ekstra work!) i showed her the german built speaker, those are beauties
I would make the frontbaffle and the internal volume the same. that should not be a problem since i dabble in the dark arts of math
the reason i ask is because i seem to remember reading on your website, that the resonans of the cabinet could change the sound.
Joel's mini review continues, he seems to have sorted out better what the Peerless HDS tweeters are doing:
Part 3:
Just wanted to let you know that I've been listening all week and thinking about the treble. I'm going over everything that I can think of and believe what I'm hearing is simply the tweeter's ability to reveal how the treble was recorded. Since every recording is unique some don't have as much cymbal ring coming through from the recording process but when the recording has the treble content then it shows. It's not a case of one recordings having less or more treble it's the amount of treble complexity in the recording coming through. The scanspeak tweeters in my other speakers have their own personality so the treble differences within the recording are not displayed as widely I've always found the sound of treble to be the hardest to figure out but I thing I gradually discovering that the Peerless is an amazing tweeter...
Dissecting the Elsinore means nothing anyway because they simply sound Fabulous but I will post much more thoughts and experiences on diy audio. I have a personal vendetta against some commercial brands and mainstream magazines based on some bad experiences, so my retaliation is to try to get people to believe/realize that the Elsinore easily competes with Big name brands that are very expensive. It will better many of them. Last night my friend said these were better then the Wilsons we (myself and my friend were on a road trip) heard in Chicago - I thought the same thing earlier in the week an had not mentioned that to him... I much prefer them over Sophia as well for different reasons. The Wilson we heard were the Maxx series 2...
I going to experiment much more with many many recordings along with listening to them up stairs in a wide space without treatments. Hope to have 300b mono's running soon as well.... I'll post thoughts on Diy audio.
Later, Joel.
Part 3:
Just wanted to let you know that I've been listening all week and thinking about the treble. I'm going over everything that I can think of and believe what I'm hearing is simply the tweeter's ability to reveal how the treble was recorded. Since every recording is unique some don't have as much cymbal ring coming through from the recording process but when the recording has the treble content then it shows. It's not a case of one recordings having less or more treble it's the amount of treble complexity in the recording coming through. The scanspeak tweeters in my other speakers have their own personality so the treble differences within the recording are not displayed as widely I've always found the sound of treble to be the hardest to figure out but I thing I gradually discovering that the Peerless is an amazing tweeter...
Dissecting the Elsinore means nothing anyway because they simply sound Fabulous but I will post much more thoughts and experiences on diy audio. I have a personal vendetta against some commercial brands and mainstream magazines based on some bad experiences, so my retaliation is to try to get people to believe/realize that the Elsinore easily competes with Big name brands that are very expensive. It will better many of them. Last night my friend said these were better then the Wilsons we (myself and my friend were on a road trip) heard in Chicago - I thought the same thing earlier in the week an had not mentioned that to him... I much prefer them over Sophia as well for different reasons. The Wilson we heard were the Maxx series 2...
I going to experiment much more with many many recordings along with listening to them up stairs in a wide space without treatments. Hope to have 300b mono's running soon as well.... I'll post thoughts on Diy audio.
Later, Joel.
CCU said:
OK, I understand what you have in mind. I don't really think it will sound terrible, but it does come down to diffraction loss being a bit different as there will be bit more effective baffle area. Let me put it this way, use the current crossover and then listen to them. After that I can make suggestion which component (as it will most likely be only one - but not promising that) that you can change its value in a certain direction and then listen to it. Also being able to do a pink noise test (also called RTA test) could be useful. You will need a burnt CD disk with pink noise recorded on it (I could post it), play it and then use some mic and software to capture it. We can look at those details a bit further down the line.
Joe R.
Hi Joe,
I have'nt yet build the elsinore but I am using the hds tweeter and hds woofers in my 2-1/2 way DIY speaker that I'm now using for HT. I did also noticed the sound of the hds tweeter is not quite natural and detailed compaired to some Seas and other commercial high end tweeters I'm also using, I think the hds is fine from 2K to 7Khz but above that, I think the sound have a hint of dirtiness and lack of transparency.
I am thinking of building the elsinore but with another tweeter, But I cant find another tweeter that have the same sensitivity and have similar characteristics of the HDS tweets.
Though the HDS tweets is a very good tweeter, I dont think I want to use it in my next project.
I have'nt yet build the elsinore but I am using the hds tweeter and hds woofers in my 2-1/2 way DIY speaker that I'm now using for HT. I did also noticed the sound of the hds tweeter is not quite natural and detailed compaired to some Seas and other commercial high end tweeters I'm also using, I think the hds is fine from 2K to 7Khz but above that, I think the sound have a hint of dirtiness and lack of transparency.
I am thinking of building the elsinore but with another tweeter, But I cant find another tweeter that have the same sensitivity and have similar characteristics of the HDS tweets.
Though the HDS tweets is a very good tweeter, I dont think I want to use it in my next project.
Joe Rasmussen said:
Are you surgesting making the center a bit more narrow to reduce the baffle area?
But i'll start of with the standart crossover and i thank you so much for wanting to help with tuning the center crossover
i'll get started as soon as the plywood i ordered is delivered. it's not easy getting a hold of 3mm plywood in Denmark(at a reasonable price)
CCU said:
The upper driver in the current design sees less baffle area than the bottom. Your arrangement now increases the baffle area for that driver - the other(s) are not affected. For now don't worry about it and definitely do NOT change other dimensions, especially the narrowness, as that just complicates matters more.
3mm plywood? Is that right?
Joe R.
Joe Rasmussen said:
okay then i won't change the baffle
As i said ealier on my girlfriend doesn't think the square design is pretty. therefore i'm making a curved cabinet, internel volume, "windowarea" inside the case og baffle kept the same.
i chose the 3mm plywood because its bendable, i'm going 2 make both sides and back in one piece of ply (kinda like B&W's 800D) and the same shape as the B&W 804S
7 layers of plywood for the sides, it is NOT going to be a fast build!
also building one of the standart elsinore kanibets for comparison
i'm also making an eksternel crossover box and thinking about using 2 bassreflekstubes,
one at the back and one in the bottom, then closing one of the tubes,
maybe this could make it easier finding a sutible placement of the speaker. but this is stil only a theory.
Edit-
this is for all who has build the elsinore speaker, which cable have you used for the internal wiring
i am thinking about using QED Silver Anniversary and i am going to be eksperimenting with 3x2.5mm2 solidcore housewiring cable for the basspeakers
Consider leaving the cabinets the way there designed. Joe has went to great lenghts to have amazing sound come out of simple to make cabinets..
When I arrived at the point where all the panels where dry fitted I thought they looked very, very nice and much better than any picture has show..
The trick to a beatuful look then lies in how the finish is done using one or a few of the many materials available..
When your listening to the Elsinore cosmetics become
unimportant..
Danger: If you assemble and listen before you put the finish on, like I did, it will be very hard to shut them down to complete the surfaces...
Joel
Joel Wesseling said:
Consider leaving the cabinets the way there designed. Joe has went to great lenghts to have amazing sound come out of simple to make cabinets..
When I arrived at the point where all the panels where dry fitted I thought they looked very, very nice and much better than any picture has show..
The trick to a beatuful look then lies in how the finish is done using one or a few of the many materials available..
When your listening to the Elsinore cosmetics become
unimportant..
Danger: If you assemble and listen before you put the finish on, like I did, it will be very hard to shut them down to complete the surfaces...
Joel
well the cosmetics is mostly a GAF problem and GAF is a huge problem if it isn't there!
plus i like the challenge
and i WILL be comparing the 2 speaker kabinets, hopefully my version will be as good as the original.BTW i've ordered some crossover components
clarity cap SA series for all caps exept 68uf which is a Jantzen crosscap
Coils: Jantzen baked air coils. But haven't been able to find a 9mh coil, except for a 1.2mm air coil which seems insufficient for bass(in my mind) need to find something sutible
Risistors: duelund througout the crossover
based my choice of caps partly because of this test
link
I'm seriously interested in buying the kit from Joe, but I was wondering if there's anyone in Melbourne (AUS!) that has a pair that I could come around and listen to first?
And another question while I'm at it: Can anyone recommend a reliable shop that could cut (and possibly build?) the cabinets for me? I have virtually no proper tools, and I don't want to screw it up if I end up building them.
And another question while I'm at it: Can anyone recommend a reliable shop that could cut (and possibly build?) the cabinets for me? I have virtually no proper tools, and I don't want to screw it up if I end up building them.
Hi all,
I have decided to take the plunge and build a pair of Elsinores after talking to Joe acouple of weeks ago. and reading ALL the info on joes site.
I have a question for people who have built the speakers,
when you countersink the screws in the MDF can you tell me the specific countersinking tool and brand you used ?
and the screw and pilot bit sizes you have used ?
the reason i ask is previously i have seen MDF warp or bow at the screw joint and i want to avoid this for a nice smooth finish.
-Dan
I have decided to take the plunge and build a pair of Elsinores after talking to Joe acouple of weeks ago. and reading ALL the info on joes site.
I have a question for people who have built the speakers,
when you countersink the screws in the MDF can you tell me the specific countersinking tool and brand you used ?
and the screw and pilot bit sizes you have used ?
the reason i ask is previously i have seen MDF warp or bow at the screw joint and i want to avoid this for a nice smooth finish.
-Dan
danieljw said:
Hi Dan
Today I dont use the normal countersinking, I have used it a lot in past though
I have found a much better way
You need a wood drill with center tap
Its a standard drill fore wood
Size is what fits the head diameter of your screws, preferably not too big...thin screws are best fore MDF, less risk of splitting
Just drill deep enough so that the screwhead is just below surface...about 1.5mm
This way you get a hole as small and smooth as possible
Further putty will be much easier and better lasting
If you want it real nice, and have some skills, you take out the screws once the glue is dried
Then drill the holes deeper using same drill, could be all the way through both items
Then plug the holes with woodplugs and glue
Fore finish I use a small handsaw with fine tooths, and at last a sharp chisel...but I suppose it could be done by sanding also
These days, to get rit of the putting, many prefer to do without screws and use glue only
In case of that I suggest to use a couple of small countersinking nails, to fix the plates while tightening the clamps
Man, I really needed my dictionary fore that one
good luck
Well, like you say...a picture says more than words
You may also look at page "i2" in this document
http://www.wolfcraft.de/workarea/supplier/sWolfcraft/documents/BAL/3750.pdf
You may also look at page "i2" in this document
http://www.wolfcraft.de/workarea/supplier/sWolfcraft/documents/BAL/3750.pdf
