FYI That particular waveguide is available from Alltronics in Perth for not much money.
All I can say is WOW...I made real progress today addressing the harshness issue with the HDS tweeter with an LCR circuit. Part of my frustration with the tweeter is I really do like the way it sounds, but at medium to loud levels it sounded very harsh to my ears.
Do to my limited understanding of xovers, I assumed it had to be the tweeter. In any case thanks to Joe and irext and Lojzek...and probably a few others for not calling me out on my stupidity and ignorance and simply being patient with me! (Thanks especially to Pascal, for not giving up.)
This was the first time after adjusting the xover, that I really felt excited and pleased...it's not 100% but it is close!
Maybe I want to start an HDS fan club!
Do to my limited understanding of xovers, I assumed it had to be the tweeter. In any case thanks to Joe and irext and Lojzek...and probably a few others for not calling me out on my stupidity and ignorance and simply being patient with me! (Thanks especially to Pascal, for not giving up.)
This was the first time after adjusting the xover, that I really felt excited and pleased...it's not 100% but it is close!
Maybe I want to start an HDS fan club!
Audition of Speakers - Melbourne
I am interested in building the Elsinsores. Already acquired appear of wave guides and have spoken Joe a number of times but before I commit to building these speakers I was wondering if there was someone in Melbourne Australia, who has completed the build and would be kind enough to allow me to audition them. Much appreciated
Ian
I am interested in building the Elsinsores. Already acquired appear of wave guides and have spoken Joe a number of times but before I commit to building these speakers I was wondering if there was someone in Melbourne Australia, who has completed the build and would be kind enough to allow me to audition them. Much appreciated
Ian
Back from an extended trip overseas. I am hoping to get some Waveguides made, not yet making any promises, but we shall see. Joel has done his bit and I think there are many who are thankful for that. I had a visit by somebody who is an industrial designer and he basically said he was amazed what the Elsinores were doing in my current system and expressed a definite interest in building them for himself. When I pointed out about the Waveguides, he offered to get them made in quantity as he will need a pair for himself anyway. If this all works out, it will not be made of aluminium, too heavy to post and also that the price will be the same no matter where they are sent. So a flat price and lower weight - I suggested an acrylic type... ?
I should know something soon, hopefully, now that I am back.
Cheers, Joe
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If you use acrylic I suggest getting a dental vacuum former similar to this Amazon.com: Dental Vacuum Former Forming Machine w/ Materials: Health & Personal Care to form the wave guide. It would be very fast!
You put a sheet of material on a tray, under the heater. You put the mold atop the vacuum grid. Once the material sag from the heater above, you pull the tray down. The vacuum kicks in and pull the sheet tight around the mold. Turn off and remove. Takes like 30 sec per mold. The more molds you have the faster you can make the parts, since the heater is still hot.
You then trim the the wave guide and glue on the mount.
You put a sheet of material on a tray, under the heater. You put the mold atop the vacuum grid. Once the material sag from the heater above, you pull the tray down. The vacuum kicks in and pull the sheet tight around the mold. Turn off and remove. Takes like 30 sec per mold. The more molds you have the faster you can make the parts, since the heater is still hot.
You then trim the the wave guide and glue on the mount.
No doubt that there are ways to do it, but I will be guided on this by somebody who really knows his stuff. I don't think it would be impertinent to point out that in a money sense, the development of the Elsinores over the years has involved thousands of hours and the person guiding me in this has made the point that I should look to make a reasonable return by making the Waveguides available at a reasonable price and also make a reasonable return - that means mass producing it in such a way there will be no fiddly aspects of making them and they come out of the machine fully formed and ready to go.
I really shouldn't be making any firm promises yet, but the above is the plan.
Also, that these Waveguides can be made available and used by others who wants to use the HDS/S-S Tweeter for their own non-Elsinore projects and buy for a reasonable cost for them as well. This Tweeter will then continue to have a long life and hopefully S-S will continue to make them.
Many newer and modern tweeters are not suitable for use with Waveguides IMO. Without Waveguides, the modern tweeters like the Wavecor used in the Orpheus Apollos is a good trend, with larger domes and enlarged surround rolls that have a ring radiator quality, is for the better IMO, but making Waveguides for these tweeters is problematic, whereas the HDS/S-S tweeter is just about right. Larger domes are a compromise, but they do promise lower distortion where dome distortion is usually worst - but a Waveguide on a 25mm to 28mm dome has the same effect of at least doubling and even tripling the effective surface area (Sd) and hence achieve something similar to a larger dome and with additional benefits but at greater complexity. So if I design without a Waveguide, I will go for the modern trend tweeter, but with Waveguides, I don't know of anything better than the venerable HDS/S-S tweeter (but must use a carefully tailored LC trap tuned to near Fs to get the lowest distortion and best power handling).
Cheers, Joe
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Folks:
Similar to IANB2 above, I'd really like to audition the Elsinores before committing to building them. This question was posed months ago and no responses were received. On the off chance that my last inquiry was not noticed, has anyone withing 200 miles of Philadelphia, PA built a pair?
Regards,
Scott
Similar to IANB2 above, I'd really like to audition the Elsinores before committing to building them. This question was posed months ago and no responses were received. On the off chance that my last inquiry was not noticed, has anyone withing 200 miles of Philadelphia, PA built a pair?
Regards,
Scott
On the subject of crossovers I would like to install them inside the boxes with a similar method posted by Joel Wessling Post #1192 without the binding post plate. But would put the mid/bass and tweeter crossovers on separate boards. Where would be the best location to mount these between the stiffening braces as not to affect the volume and dampening of the boxes? I was thinking close to top and back? Suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanx, TIm
Thanx, TIm
WAVEGUIDE SOON AVAILABLE - ADVANCE ORDER DISCOUNT:
Normally AUD $190 per Pair including Air Postage anywhere.
Pre-orders for the first month Special AUD $150 per Pair (all orders taken during November).
3D rendered image.
Shipping will be flat rate anywhere in the world and the pair will be $190 AUD from December onwards.
Payment via PayPal address joeras@vacuumstate.com is OK. Also, in Australia, bank transfer is available.
Material: I should have the first sample in about a week. It will look like Joel's earlier Waveguides, but tighter fit in the throat where there was a small gap previously. The material is known as ACETAL HOMOPOLYMER and with a slightly roughed surface, which means, while Black will suit most, it can be sprayed with a $10 enamel can and in any colour you might like.
Diameter: 148mm, to suit 150mm cut-out.
My Industrial Designer's comments: Acetal combines lubricity and wear resistance with the stiffness and strength needed in parts designed to replace metal. It is a highly-crystalline polymer that has high stiffness and strength without the need for glass reinforcement, allowing for thinner and lighter part design. It offers outstanding low and high temperature performance, good colorability, and good mating with metal and other polymers. About the best 'plastic' there is.
I have to say that a considerable monetary outlay has been made for 100 pairs - that is why those who come in early will get a favourable price. Keep in mind that the cost will cover Air Mail as high as AUD $44.00 to Europe and only slightly less to the US - and also will need to cover PayPal fees as I suspect most will use that as payment, which means that credit cards can be used.
When I get the sample, hopefully about a week, I will post a photo.
In the meantime, anyone has any comments to make?
Cheers, Joe
PS: Those who like to use the Peerless HDS/Scan-Speak 2608 Discovery Tweeter for projects other than Elsinores, then please consider buying as well. This Tweeter's performance is greatly enhanced by using a Waveguide such as this.
Normally AUD $190 per Pair including Air Postage anywhere.
Pre-orders for the first month Special AUD $150 per Pair (all orders taken during November).
3D rendered image.
Shipping will be flat rate anywhere in the world and the pair will be $190 AUD from December onwards.
Payment via PayPal address joeras@vacuumstate.com is OK. Also, in Australia, bank transfer is available.
Material: I should have the first sample in about a week. It will look like Joel's earlier Waveguides, but tighter fit in the throat where there was a small gap previously. The material is known as ACETAL HOMOPOLYMER and with a slightly roughed surface, which means, while Black will suit most, it can be sprayed with a $10 enamel can and in any colour you might like.
Diameter: 148mm, to suit 150mm cut-out.
My Industrial Designer's comments: Acetal combines lubricity and wear resistance with the stiffness and strength needed in parts designed to replace metal. It is a highly-crystalline polymer that has high stiffness and strength without the need for glass reinforcement, allowing for thinner and lighter part design. It offers outstanding low and high temperature performance, good colorability, and good mating with metal and other polymers. About the best 'plastic' there is.
I have to say that a considerable monetary outlay has been made for 100 pairs - that is why those who come in early will get a favourable price. Keep in mind that the cost will cover Air Mail as high as AUD $44.00 to Europe and only slightly less to the US - and also will need to cover PayPal fees as I suspect most will use that as payment, which means that credit cards can be used.
When I get the sample, hopefully about a week, I will post a photo.
In the meantime, anyone has any comments to make?
Cheers, Joe
PS: Those who like to use the Peerless HDS/Scan-Speak 2608 Discovery Tweeter for projects other than Elsinores, then please consider buying as well. This Tweeter's performance is greatly enhanced by using a Waveguide such as this.
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To be honest, I would love you to buy a pair of the new ones, but Steve who made the square ones by hand, made it a good fit. So if I remember right, you ended up with one of those. The new ones were based on a physical sample of Joel's Waveguide which needed to have added a bit of an angle inside the throat, about 1mm.
I have ordered 100 pairs (200 in total) at quite a cost - so I hope that orders will come in, also let it be known more widely that this Waveguide for this particular tweeter is available for new projects and so on. At least from now on, there will be no shortage of Waveguides.
Cheers, Joe
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That's great news for waveguide, but i need some advise here.
1. Anyone compared elsinore vs big fullrange such audio nirvana 12"?
2. How much is the weight of each cabinet? Can it be pushed to fall down by hands? I have 2years twinboys that i expect they should not be able push the speaker cabinet, which they can do it easily on my existing midsize floorstand.
1. Anyone compared elsinore vs big fullrange such audio nirvana 12"?
2. How much is the weight of each cabinet? Can it be pushed to fall down by hands? I have 2years twinboys that i expect they should not be able push the speaker cabinet, which they can do it easily on my existing midsize floorstand.
Each cabinet is over 100 lb depending material used. Mines are around 125 lb. I don't expect yours kids will be able to push them
If you are worried about them being pushed over I would suggest placing them on some stands which have a wider footprint. Without they could be possibly be pushed over sideways (if the kids are determined enough). They are quite tall and slim but weigh about 45 kilos each. Also if children are about I strongly suggest a grill cloth which can be removed when required. Dome tweeters are a magnet for little fingers.
VALUE MANURFACTURER PART NO DETAILS
R1 1R 1OHM 10W WIRE WOUND NON INDUCTIVE
R2 4R7 4.7OHM 10W WIRE WOUND NON INDUCTIVE
R3 5R - L4 4.3OHM 10 WIRE WOUND NON INDUCTIVE
R4 3R9 3.9OHM 10W WIRE WOUND NON INDUCTIVE
L1 0.47mH JANTZEN 2810 14AWG AIR CORE 0.16OHM DCR
L2 0.82mH JANTZEN 2640 15AWG AIR CORE 0.27OHM DCR 1897
L3 0.05mH JANTZEN 2410 16AWG AIR CORE 0.06OHM DCR 1024
L4 10mH JANTZEN 6275 18AWG P CORED INDUCTOR 0.57OHM DCR 5063
C1 1.8uF JANTZEN 11 1.8uF SUPERIORZ-CAP
C2 68uF/100V BIPOLAR JANTZEN 232 68uF CROSS CAP
C3 47uF/100V BIPOLAR JANTZEN 47uF CROSS CAP
C4 470mF ELECTROLYTIC. 2X 125uF + 1X 22uF NON POLARISED
C5 1uF/100V FILM JANTZEN 1.00uF SUPERIORZ-CAP
will these parts be ok for the hamlet crossovers?
R1 1R 1OHM 10W WIRE WOUND NON INDUCTIVE
R2 4R7 4.7OHM 10W WIRE WOUND NON INDUCTIVE
R3 5R - L4 4.3OHM 10 WIRE WOUND NON INDUCTIVE
R4 3R9 3.9OHM 10W WIRE WOUND NON INDUCTIVE
L1 0.47mH JANTZEN 2810 14AWG AIR CORE 0.16OHM DCR
L2 0.82mH JANTZEN 2640 15AWG AIR CORE 0.27OHM DCR 1897
L3 0.05mH JANTZEN 2410 16AWG AIR CORE 0.06OHM DCR 1024
L4 10mH JANTZEN 6275 18AWG P CORED INDUCTOR 0.57OHM DCR 5063
C1 1.8uF JANTZEN 11 1.8uF SUPERIORZ-CAP
C2 68uF/100V BIPOLAR JANTZEN 232 68uF CROSS CAP
C3 47uF/100V BIPOLAR JANTZEN 47uF CROSS CAP
C4 470mF ELECTROLYTIC. 2X 125uF + 1X 22uF NON POLARISED
C5 1uF/100V FILM JANTZEN 1.00uF SUPERIORZ-CAP
will these parts be ok for the hamlet crossovers?