No, he doesn't have to, unless he feels like having one. There is so much dogma about that topic and some get carried away with its importance. Time is better spent listening to music and make it sound as good as you can, play it for others and see if they like it too, share experiences that are enjoyable. As a friend of mine no longer with us said "life is short."
Actually, DIY is relatively a cheap hobby compared to many others. Think about it - and enjoy.
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Hi zman01
I'm still waiting for drivers burn in and doing some fine tuning , things are going in the right direction
-> Box tuning has been raised at 40 hz by cuting 1 cm of the bass reflex tube, lenght is 10 cm
-> I'm planing to add 2.5 cm of damping material on the rear side, actual thick is around 5 cm
-> Sound is a little bright -> tweeter capacitor C1 will be changed for 1.8 mF and I will increase R1 if necessary, values R1 and C1 are 3.0 ohms and 2.0 mF.
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pguerin,
Thanks for sharing updates. Let us know what you hear after you're done making the changes.
There is also the Bolserst mod that some Elsinore builders have implemented to their satisfaction, but probably too early for you to to decide in that direction, as speakers are very new and you are still adjusting a few things.
Also have you checked if the woofers are all wired in phase? I was going through the whole thread today and came across a couple of examples where the builders had made minor errors in the wiring.
Thanks for sharing updates. Let us know what you hear after you're done making the changes.
There is also the Bolserst mod that some Elsinore builders have implemented to their satisfaction, but probably too early for you to to decide in that direction, as speakers are very new and you are still adjusting a few things.
Also have you checked if the woofers are all wired in phase? I was going through the whole thread today and came across a couple of examples where the builders had made minor errors in the wiring.
All Woofer are all wired in phase LOL, it's the first thing I check when I build speakers
I'm pretty sure that the four new 6.5" need some more break in.
Concerning the Bolserst mods, I've ordered the 33 ohms resistors with the damping matérial.
According to Joe's post a few years back, the white dot marks the positive terminal:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/97043-elsinore-project-thread-69.html#post2446617
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/97043-elsinore-project-thread-69.html#post2446617
Elevating Elsinores?
During a recent trip to Melbourne and doing the May Audio Society gig and of course using the Elsinore Mk6, something interesting happened.
The hall we used was not ideal, these things never are. Never mind, we set up the equipment and got it going. Nick the club coordinator pointed to what was believed, determined over time, the best location for the speakers. Afterwards, I walked around to see how it sounded and I was struck by how the room seemed to suck up the sound and the further back you got, it got worse. Nick had asked if I would need to use some stands he had in the car, that lifted the speaker about 30cm of the floor. My initial reaction was a define no. But I now had second thoughts.
Just before the proceedings started, we got the stands out of Nick's car and propped them under the Elsinores. It was a marked difference, did not cure it at the back of the hall, but certain the first four rows or so were now that much better. In fact, the sound had now exceeded my expectations and afterwards, some were saying that was about as good as they had heard in that room. That was nice.
When I got back home in Sydney, it really got me thing. No, not 30cm, but in an average room, some elevation was worth trying.
I am now elevating my Elsinores 100mm (10cm) of the floor - initially thought it was a bit of a mixture of blessings, but a bit longer listening and I am not going back.
I thought I should share that with you. Also went to a friend's place and we did likewise to his Elsinores - and same benneficial result.
I used some pavers (six per side, see link below) to lift mine, used a little bit of Blue-Tack between the pavers and the bottom of the speakers. I may make something more permanent later - and also we could ask others here to tell us what/how the do it and about the results they hear.
Cheers, Joe
Link: Brighton Masonry 200 x 100 x 50mm
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During a recent trip to Melbourne and doing the May Audio Society gig and of course using the Elsinore Mk6, something interesting happened.
The hall we used was not ideal, these things never are. Never mind, we set up the equipment and got it going. Nick the club coordinator pointed to what was believed, determined over time, the best location for the speakers. Afterwards, I walked around to see how it sounded and I was struck by how the room seemed to suck up the sound and the further back you got, it got worse. Nick had asked if I would need to use some stands he had in the car, that lifted the speaker about 30cm of the floor. My initial reaction was a define no. But I now had second thoughts.
Just before the proceedings started, we got the stands out of Nick's car and propped them under the Elsinores. It was a marked difference, did not cure it at the back of the hall, but certain the first four rows or so were now that much better. In fact, the sound had now exceeded my expectations and afterwards, some were saying that was about as good as they had heard in that room. That was nice.
When I got back home in Sydney, it really got me thing. No, not 30cm, but in an average room, some elevation was worth trying.
I am now elevating my Elsinores 100mm (10cm) of the floor - initially thought it was a bit of a mixture of blessings, but a bit longer listening and I am not going back.
I thought I should share that with you. Also went to a friend's place and we did likewise to his Elsinores - and same benneficial result.
I used some pavers (six per side, see link below) to lift mine, used a little bit of Blue-Tack between the pavers and the bottom of the speakers. I may make something more permanent later - and also we could ask others here to tell us what/how the do it and about the results they hear.
Cheers, Joe
Link: Brighton Masonry 200 x 100 x 50mm
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Hello Joe, how did the Elsinores sound at 30cm elevation? I am thinking to build a pair to use at my desk as that is where I actually listen to most music these days. To get the tweeter to ear height (~127cm measured) I would need to lift the Elsinores 45cm off the floor. What do you think? If you think this is crazy just tell me I'm crazy. Maybe I am I dunno haha.
Maybe I am I dunno haha.
No, not necessarily crazy at that - in our case it was the largeness of the hall and lot of sound being absorbed, particularly by floor coverings. The chairs were also a bit taller your average arm chair or couch and it also helped project the sound into the room. And yes, it does make sense to get the tweeter height up.
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Great!
If the latest recommendation for the Elsinores is to lift them 10cm higher, would it not better for new builders to actually make the enclosures 10cm taller and fill the cavity at the bottom with sand?
as chrisb writes in another thread:
If the latest recommendation for the Elsinores is to lift them 10cm higher, would it not better for new builders to actually make the enclosures 10cm taller and fill the cavity at the bottom with sand?
as chrisb writes in another thread:
Perhaps, but I prefer it to be a different structure - not any great rationale behind it, but just a preference.
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Yep I might do that, definitely an external crossover for Joe's design - it's worth it.
As Lynn Olson writes here:
"Some folks are allergic to external crossovers; this is unfortunate, since capacitors are quite microphonic, acting both as electrostatic speakers and low-quality condensor microphones. You can't do much about the emission of sound (except consider oil-filled caps in metal cans), but you can isolate them from the heavy vibration of the enclosure by using an external (non-metallic) enclosure."
I am still thinking about the base. Actually 2 bases in my case. One to lift the cabinet 10cm as per Joe's tweak and another to place under it to lift the tweeter to ear height when sitting. I then have the option to use the Elsinores at 3 different heights. But this makes things a bit complicated so that's why I thought to combine the 10cm base with the Elsinores. Still thinking and am in no rush. And you never know Joe might change his mind about the height or come up with another insight.
As Lynn Olson writes here:
"Some folks are allergic to external crossovers; this is unfortunate, since capacitors are quite microphonic, acting both as electrostatic speakers and low-quality condensor microphones. You can't do much about the emission of sound (except consider oil-filled caps in metal cans), but you can isolate them from the heavy vibration of the enclosure by using an external (non-metallic) enclosure."
I am still thinking about the base. Actually 2 bases in my case. One to lift the cabinet 10cm as per Joe's tweak and another to place under it to lift the tweeter to ear height when sitting. I then have the option to use the Elsinores at 3 different heights. But this makes things a bit complicated so that's why I thought to combine the 10cm base with the Elsinores. Still thinking and am in no rush. And you never know Joe might change his mind about the height or come up with another insight.
Hi Joe,
Now I am back again. Was originally thinking of building a pair of MKVI instead of the the MKVs that i have. But reading through the threads latter part a number of times now i think i will stick with my MKVs. I did include all the 3 stages of the Boelstrs mod, but will go back to only stage one.
INSTEAD, as it was some yeas now that i built some speakers (life and some class-d amps got in the way) i thought of building a pair of Hamlet MKVIs. But it seamed that the info about it ended with this post in January. What did happen?
Mea culpa.
Hopefully very close now.
I am leaving for Europe on 23rd October and will have the Hamlet Mk6 details by then.
This year I have been working on tube amplifier design (been pushed in that direction by another friend of the late Allen Wright, Brian Gurr in Auckland, New Zealand) and it has taken up a large slice of time and focus, but getting results that we are putting smiles on our faces. It's been a mind bending process. We have quite a few listening sessions, both here and in New Zealand, with some extremely discerning and critical listeners, and the feedback, well, you couldn't ask for more or better. It is a totally unconventional design, but it boosts the performance of the output transformer by doing two things, agitating the output transformer at 55KHz and lowering the impedance seen by the Primary of the output transformer to a level that has not been done before, approaching something called "Unity" or "UGS" and technical guys will understand what that means.
The concept of the amp we are calling "Beyond Triode" and yes, it also builds on the legacy of Allen Wright. This is about halving the Anode impedance of the Triode output tubes in Triode power amplifiers. Actually not the difficult once you have figured that part out, but driving the output tubes is a huge problem, as you need to swing four times the voltage compared to the average tube amplifier. Ouch! Right now we may be looking for a tube that doesn't exist?
Looks like we have sorted it out with low and medium power Triodes, up to 40-50 Watt. But we want to see now if we can build something around 80 Watt and maybe a bit more. That is where the missing tube comes in and we might get defeated. But hope to send a 20 Watt version ahead and be there before I arrive in Denmark October 24th.
As may be known by now, the annual European Triode Festival ETF17 is held on 9-12th November and intend to have that amp there and ready for some 100 people to critique the result, any of those who are so inclined. Especially Menno Vanderveen as he will be there. Quietly confident. Make good sound and that will always do it. I would love to have a pair of Elsinores there. It is held at Tisvildeleje, north of Copenhagen. Do I have hope?
Within a few weeks will complete the computer modelling of the new Hamlets and post something within four weeks. I have eight weeks before I leave, so it should be well sorted by then.
Cheers, Joe
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Sounds great!
Do you have any Elsinores close by in Nothern Sjelland or Helsingbord area?
If i get to know in advance it might be possible to get mine down there (500km from Eskilstuna, but my Ex are in those areas sometimes by car from here). With the Boelstrs mod removed (planning to do that in the close future). The will also be heightened by some 130mm as i plan to build a base/footing in mdf to put my mono NewclassD amps in (with somewhat large footprint than the speaker itself.
Not aware of any, unless somebody surprises me.
So these would be Mk5?
That is quite a distance.
The extra height is a good thing. Good for hiding monoblocks.
But it seems quite a distance? And you have another reason to travel...?