I have just finished designing and building my first pair of speakers which needed a real crossover. It's largely my design, with large dollops of help from others on this forum and elsewhere. Couldn't have done it without you guys. Many of you may have read my terribly confused calls for help on numerous occasions.
I've just finished writing it up. There are one or two minor points in the enclosure diagrams which I may touch up, but otherwise, the account is accurate, I think. Check here.
The only reason I've put the "[INDIA]" tag in the subject line is because the drivers I've used (in fact each and every component I have used) are made in India. It is generally believed that Indian DIYers can't build interesting speakers because "nothing is available". I found at least some options available, however limited.
It would be good if you posted discussions about these speakers here, on this forum, instead of the comments pages of the Website where I've written my account. That way, all the comments can be kept in one place, and don't have to go through the admin review process there.
The pair has cost me roughly Rs.40,000 (USD 900 or so). Out of this, more than 20% was payment for carpenter's fees and polishing-finishing. If you can cut costs there, or opt for less expensive veneer (I paid Rs.60/sq-ft for mine, or USD 1.50) you can build it cheaper.
Just wanted to say a very big thank-you to all of you. I know how literally it's true, when I say couldn't have done it without you.
I've just finished writing it up. There are one or two minor points in the enclosure diagrams which I may touch up, but otherwise, the account is accurate, I think. Check here.
The only reason I've put the "[INDIA]" tag in the subject line is because the drivers I've used (in fact each and every component I have used) are made in India. It is generally believed that Indian DIYers can't build interesting speakers because "nothing is available". I found at least some options available, however limited.
It would be good if you posted discussions about these speakers here, on this forum, instead of the comments pages of the Website where I've written my account. That way, all the comments can be kept in one place, and don't have to go through the admin review process there.
The pair has cost me roughly Rs.40,000 (USD 900 or so). Out of this, more than 20% was payment for carpenter's fees and polishing-finishing. If you can cut costs there, or opt for less expensive veneer (I paid Rs.60/sq-ft for mine, or USD 1.50) you can build it cheaper.
Just wanted to say a very big thank-you to all of you. I know how literally it's true, when I say couldn't have done it without you.
Congratulations - your speakers are very aesthetically pleasing, and your design is very in-depth and well thought out. You have taken a very big step in designing these from the ground up, and that's a huge challenge for anyone.
Your website also desrves praise for it's very organized structure and logical layout - excellent presentation of the project. Please keep up the good work and let us know about your future projects.
Your website also desrves praise for it's very organized structure and logical layout - excellent presentation of the project. Please keep up the good work and let us know about your future projects.
(INDIA) The Asawari
Hi tcpip
Your amazing journey on this road is much admired. I had similar frustrations at not being able to source bits for what I had in mind from 'around the corner' or the next suburb. At least (so I presume) no-one gave you the brush-off when you wanted something done as everyone knows a speaker. Here in my country, I walked into many brick walls and total disinterest when outsiders I wanted to buy services or good from or needed some advice, instantly lost interest or tried to rip me off when they heard I'm working on a moving coil cartridge.
Like your Asawari, my Mantis MC cartridge is done and seems to be liked in many places.
If you decide to go 'commercial', I wish you all of the very best and much success.
bulgin
Hi tcpip
Your amazing journey on this road is much admired. I had similar frustrations at not being able to source bits for what I had in mind from 'around the corner' or the next suburb. At least (so I presume) no-one gave you the brush-off when you wanted something done as everyone knows a speaker. Here in my country, I walked into many brick walls and total disinterest when outsiders I wanted to buy services or good from or needed some advice, instantly lost interest or tried to rip me off when they heard I'm working on a moving coil cartridge.
Like your Asawari, my Mantis MC cartridge is done and seems to be liked in many places.
If you decide to go 'commercial', I wish you all of the very best and much success.
bulgin
Those speakers look beautiful! And the long road to success seems familiar. I read the whole writeup/biography and it is of interest to me- perhaps because I DO have access to "Parts Express" and others. Very interesting to see how thing are in another culture.
What was recognizable was the effort it takes to fit our projects into lives which require us to earn a living, enjoy our loved ones, and other distractions..
Sometimes just reading and interacting with people here can help you avoid mistakes that would have taken a lot of effort to correct. In a way you have created prototype speakers in your mind and rejected the ones that were problematic. So all that time before actual creation was no doubt very useful.
You now have the (hard won) measurement ability to create new speakers more efficiently. Interesting that in your area it is more reasonable to spend ones' time on the design and have others do the production, but it makes perfect sense.
The salient point for me in your description is that we DIY people should make sure that we take advantage of the things that we can do better than commercial builders. This includes bigger, heavier boxes and over-the-top bracing, which we all know is so important but we sometime ignore.
The beginning speaker builder often assumes that the highest quality drivers must be essential, and in addition will probably ensure success. You have proven that the drivers are only part of the equation- the cabinet and crossovers are hugely important, and something we have control over.
Clearly the fact that you are willing to let them go means that you have some improvements in mind! I am excited to see the next version!
What was recognizable was the effort it takes to fit our projects into lives which require us to earn a living, enjoy our loved ones, and other distractions..
Sometimes just reading and interacting with people here can help you avoid mistakes that would have taken a lot of effort to correct. In a way you have created prototype speakers in your mind and rejected the ones that were problematic. So all that time before actual creation was no doubt very useful.
You now have the (hard won) measurement ability to create new speakers more efficiently. Interesting that in your area it is more reasonable to spend ones' time on the design and have others do the production, but it makes perfect sense.
The salient point for me in your description is that we DIY people should make sure that we take advantage of the things that we can do better than commercial builders. This includes bigger, heavier boxes and over-the-top bracing, which we all know is so important but we sometime ignore.
The beginning speaker builder often assumes that the highest quality drivers must be essential, and in addition will probably ensure success. You have proven that the drivers are only part of the equation- the cabinet and crossovers are hugely important, and something we have control over.
Clearly the fact that you are willing to let them go means that you have some improvements in mind! I am excited to see the next version!
I had excellent help, as they say, as I've noted throughout my pages.sdclc126 said:
It't not my big step, I'm sort of an instrument partly moving of my own volition and driven by my desire for good sound, but also largely being pushed ahead by others who kept prodding me whenever I fell asleep along the way. It's really their speaker as much as mine. In fact, if this discussion (or any discussion on the speakers and amps I hope to build) veers towards IPR issues, my take is that anything built by a forum member with as much help as I got is intellectual property owned by the forum or the wider Internet community. It is not mine, in a very real sense of property ownership, I believe. And I don't just mean those bits which have clearly been designed by others for me, like the initial crossover of the Asawari.
Frankly, I just wrote a straight story, broken up into pages, using very primitive, simple, raw HTML. The presentation of the Website is because of Drupal, the content management software provided by my service provider on their Web server. I get a Drupal account and a Drupal database from them. I can create whatever pages and upload whatever content I want, with just the Drupal GUI and normal FTP or SCP (for the images). All the screen layout that you see, including the drop-down menus, borders, and what not, are all generated by Drupal, based on a theme/skin that you choose (again from the Web-based admin GUI). All my Drupal pages remain in my Drupal database, distinct from other Drupal databases running on the same server. I retain full admin privileges on my Drupal site.
Re: (INDIA) The Asawari
I did not build a separate enclosure for the tweeter. This is hinted at if you see my list of planned modifications in the "what next" page at the end of my story. I believe I have felt vibrations on the front flange of one of the tweeters when music is being played quite loud. And then again, maybe simply tightening the tweeter mounting screws more will fix this, because the baffle as a whole does not vibrate.
However, in the Asawari Mk II, I will certainly build a small air-tight box around the tweeter's back-end, because the North D25 tweeters I intend to use have a light polymer-based front plate, not the metal one Peerless India uses. I can't take a risk with such front plates.
But on the whole, my biggest success story lay in my finding a carpenter who is willing to quote his price for building speakers (I never bargain with him about his fees) and then labour over all the fine fit and finish bits. Hiralalji says that when he talks to other carpenters in the neighbourhood about the fees he takes for building a pair of "boxes" for me, they fall off their chairs in disbelief. Honest, he narrated this to me. They can't imagine any sane customer paying the fees he earns for "just building a pair of boxes". Basically, the other carpenters miss out how much extra work there is in cutting accurate round holes, building multi-layered baffles, and putting in that huge amount of bracing.
Hiralalji once brought one of his disbelieving friends over when the Asawari was being built, and showed them to him. He just asked this other chap to try to move the semi-finished box. The chap failed, and was totally stunned by the weight. Hiralalji just smiled beatifically. He later narrated this story to me too.
I have had problems finding a good polishing-finishing chap who can work on a pair of speakers. I want good finishing done on my lovely veneer, and this means a more technically challenging finishing process (for PU or lamination), using powered buffing machines and so on. Those finishing chaps who have this sort of equipment are always employed handling large office setup contracts, and don't want to visit a small customer's home to do a finishing job on a pair of boxes. So I keep hunting for good guys. I think I've found someone for my next few boxes, let's hope he sticks.
So, I'll make speakers for someone to order, but I will make no attempt to actually build a business around it. It's not commercially viable unless one has the ad budget and the low-end brand positioning of a Bose, I feel.
Thanks. But I'm sure there are sort of similar stories of unexpected difficulties with every DIY project, no?nirmal said:
Sirji, good maarning.corbato said:
I did not build a separate enclosure for the tweeter. This is hinted at if you see my list of planned modifications in the "what next" page at the end of my story. I believe I have felt vibrations on the front flange of one of the tweeters when music is being played quite loud. And then again, maybe simply tightening the tweeter mounting screws more will fix this, because the baffle as a whole does not vibrate.
However, in the Asawari Mk II, I will certainly build a small air-tight box around the tweeter's back-end, because the North D25 tweeters I intend to use have a light polymer-based front plate, not the metal one Peerless India uses. I can't take a risk with such front plates.
Actually, I have had small negative experiences too, like paying disproportionate amounts for two hand-wound 220uH coils from this workshop in Bombay. Those rates are very high by Indian standards.bulgin said:
But on the whole, my biggest success story lay in my finding a carpenter who is willing to quote his price for building speakers (I never bargain with him about his fees) and then labour over all the fine fit and finish bits. Hiralalji says that when he talks to other carpenters in the neighbourhood about the fees he takes for building a pair of "boxes" for me, they fall off their chairs in disbelief.
Honest, he narrated this to me. They can't imagine any sane customer paying the fees he earns for "just building a pair of boxes". Basically, the other carpenters miss out how much extra work there is in cutting accurate round holes, building multi-layered baffles, and putting in that huge amount of bracing.Hiralalji once brought one of his disbelieving friends over when the Asawari was being built, and showed them to him. He just asked this other chap to try to move the semi-finished box. The chap failed, and was totally stunned by the weight. Hiralalji just smiled beatifically. He later narrated this story to me too.
I have had problems finding a good polishing-finishing chap who can work on a pair of speakers. I want good finishing done on my lovely veneer, and this means a more technically challenging finishing process (for PU or lamination), using powered buffing machines and so on. Those finishing chaps who have this sort of equipment are always employed handling large office setup contracts, and don't want to visit a small customer's home to do a finishing job on a pair of boxes. So I keep hunting for good guys. I think I've found someone for my next few boxes, let's hope he sticks.
Wow. I can't begin to imagine how someone will hand-craft something as precise as a wristwatch or a phono cartridge. Amazing.
A few friends have mentioned the idea of going commercial. I see no possibility of doing this, because in the society I live in (populated by upwardly mobile yuppies feeding off the advertisements on TV, burning cash on brands, working 12 hours a day and living in small apartments), no one will pay for good audio systems. They feel they have "arrived" when they buy Bose Acoustimass speakers and a Yamaha or Denon HT receiver, and the way they listen, they wouldn't hear differences between these and the Asawari anyway.
So, I'll make speakers for someone to order, but I will make no attempt to actually build a business around it. It's not commercially viable unless one has the ad budget and the low-end brand positioning of a Bose, I feel.
Yes, I feel this is there in each DIY effort, whichever country you live in.Variac said:
Yes, you're totally right. You can see the way my thoughts have moved from one approach to another simply by seeing the history of my threads on this forum. I've mentally designed and rejected many speakers, and most painful of all, I've actually spent a lot of money on Bolton 16SJW22 drivers and then realised that their Qts is way too high. But yes, I did mentally "design" and reject many designs.
I agree. If I had to learn woodworking and actually do it myself, I would probably have not gotten into speaker building at all.
Yes. True. I've learned that the B&Ws of this world do a lot of original research on driver design, inflicting laser beams on vibrating diaphragms and what not. We can't do all that. So we do things they can't do well, because they are afraid of increasing the size or shipping weight of the boxes, I guess. We are also more comfortable designing aesthetically unfashionable things in a form-follows-function approach; we don't have Marketing Heads shooting down our designs as "unsellable".
I had Angshu to shoot down such illusions and dash my dreams. I met him after I'd bought the JX92S drivers, though.
I've pretty much documented what I intend to do in the Mark II. Let's see how it turns out. But this is not related to the letting go bit. I am letting the current pair go because I now know I can always build a pair for myself, and I would like to roll the money. The money is more important right now
tcpip,
Excellent job and very nice write-up.
Really glad that you'll make a box for the tweeter, IMHO just tightening the screws make not make much difference. The baffle is strong enough but maybe the tweet's flange is not as much.
Once you get a real professional finishing job on the ASAWARIS they'd just be stunning(as if it isn't now )
Wish you all the best and hope to see more of your creations in future,
Francis
Excellent job and very nice write-up.
Really glad that you'll make a box for the tweeter, IMHO just tightening the screws make not make much difference. The baffle is strong enough but maybe the tweet's flange is not as much.
Once you get a real professional finishing job on the ASAWARIS they'd just be stunning(as if it isn't now
)I agree wholeheartedly, one of my relatives once asked me "so you think you're smarter than all the engineers in the big companies". In India it is BRANDS that matter.
Wish you all the best and hope to see more of your creations in future,
Francis
Congrats on your new children, Tarun! And a very detailed note, if I may say so, well laid out and photographed.
You really have quality shoes, to be trudging all over town like that to pick up stuff.
I didn't have the guts to do things like that, so I started on Zaph's L18 designs, importing drivers and crossover parts from the US (Madisound). So far I'm down 22 grand without boxes.
Would like a bit of help if you have the time to answer a few quick Qs:
1. Did you ask for the .22 coils to be wound using 16 SWG wire? Or was it the only guage they had lying around?
2. Do you have the numbers for Hiralalji and your polish guy? I need my standmounts made. I'm using standmounts because I need them for monitoring. Did Hiralalji give you only the raw boxes or did he veneer them for you as well? Did you consider any other form of finishing, since you were using plywood you could have gone for a stain finish also...
3. Where did you get the 1.5 mH coils from? Woofer coils are the single most difficult things to find, right after the drivers themselves.
4. Did you calculate the volume of the box with or without the bracing?
5. Is the enclosure stuffed or only lined?
I have a quick hypothesis on your harshness/brightness issue. Since the Fs of the tweeter is 1.5 KHz, the lowest crossover point should be around 3 KHz or so, and at that frequency kevlar cones begin to show a bit of self-resonance. Though the parallel RC across the woofer helps a bit with the resonance, it can't do anything about its distortion products - you may want to try a diferent tweeter and aim for a lower crossover point. The Vifa tweeter from Corrson isn't spectacularly expensive, and should be able to handle a crossover at 2KHz.
Apart from messing with the l-pad you may want to try a lower cap value, and a response shaping network on the tweeter. Both of these are excellently detailed by Zaph in his L15 and L18 projects.
Once again, hats off to you! May you contuinue to create.
You really have quality shoes, to be trudging all over town like that to pick up stuff.
I didn't have the guts to do things like that, so I started on Zaph's L18 designs, importing drivers and crossover parts from the US (Madisound). So far I'm down 22 grand without boxes.
Would like a bit of help if you have the time to answer a few quick Qs:
1. Did you ask for the .22 coils to be wound using 16 SWG wire? Or was it the only guage they had lying around?
2. Do you have the numbers for Hiralalji and your polish guy? I need my standmounts made. I'm using standmounts because I need them for monitoring. Did Hiralalji give you only the raw boxes or did he veneer them for you as well? Did you consider any other form of finishing, since you were using plywood you could have gone for a stain finish also...
3. Where did you get the 1.5 mH coils from? Woofer coils are the single most difficult things to find, right after the drivers themselves.
4. Did you calculate the volume of the box with or without the bracing?
5. Is the enclosure stuffed or only lined?
I have a quick hypothesis on your harshness/brightness issue. Since the Fs of the tweeter is 1.5 KHz, the lowest crossover point should be around 3 KHz or so, and at that frequency kevlar cones begin to show a bit of self-resonance. Though the parallel RC across the woofer helps a bit with the resonance, it can't do anything about its distortion products - you may want to try a diferent tweeter and aim for a lower crossover point. The Vifa tweeter from Corrson isn't spectacularly expensive, and should be able to handle a crossover at 2KHz.
Apart from messing with the l-pad you may want to try a lower cap value, and a response shaping network on the tweeter. Both of these are excellently detailed by Zaph in his L15 and L18 projects.
Once again, hats off to you! May you contuinue to create.
Thanks.sangram said:
Does this price include the courier charges to India? Otherwise, I'd never have thought the total bill for one of Zaph's designs would come to something so high. Two L18s should cost $150 or so, plus two Seas tweeters should go for $65. That's less than half of what you seem to have spent, so I was curious.
Disco Winding Works had all guages, 14, 16, 18, ... but all are of course SWG, not AWG. All the online coil calculators I found have calculations in AWG. So I went online looking for a reasonable AWG size which has a close equivalent in SWG, i.e. same physical diameter. I found it with 14 AWG ==> 16 SWG, IIRC. So I went with that gauge. I did the coil calculations in 14 AWG, and when I gave the specs to Disco, I asked for 16 SWG.
Sure I have Hiralalji's numbers, and he can bring in the polish guy; he got the chap for me. But Hiralalji will be busy full-time for the next three to four months. That shouldn't stop you from contacting him, though. In any case, I'll tell him about you. Which part of Bombay do you stay in?
The way 4mm-thick sheets of Indian veneer are used, the box has to be built from the beginning taking this into account. So yes, he had to fit the veneer and finish the edges carefully as per that. In fact, part of his labour charges are because of the veneer fitting overheads. (Veneer-to-veneer corners have to be finished very carefully at 45-deg and the edges made to meet. Builders in the West who get access to flexible rolls of veneer don't know any of these pains. But you probably already know all this.)
Stain finish on the raw plywood? It wouldn't look anything near as good as this. If I had to save money, I'd probably choose to use matt finish Sunmica with a wood-grain pattern. That approach can save you carpentry labour charges, veneer costs (laminate sheets are cheaper than decent veneer), and zero-out the polishing fees.
Absolutely no... Corrson winds coils to order for you, from 17SWG copper. I bought them from Corrson in fact.
With the bracing.
Only lined. I think I've described it very clearly in my write-up.
Have you read my "What next?" page in the Asawari writeup?
Your theory is very akin to the theories I had; I've given them up. These theories are generalised, and thoroughly inapplicable in the particular. For instance, self-resonance of a particular Kevlar (or any other) cone should be clearly visible in the SPL or impedance/phase curves. So, why go with theory? Measure it. Similarly, the rule-of-thumb about tweeter Fc is just that, a rule of thumb. Whether a particular tweeter gives decent low-distortion output at 2*Fs is something you have to measure using something like SoundEasy (which I don't have), not just conclude using a rule of thumb. Those rules may be totally inapplicable in the particular --- there are tweeters which need to be xo'd at 3*Fs if the distortion has to be kept low. 2*Fs isn't good enough for them.
And there are better tweeters than the Vifa ones for low Fc. Cheaper too. You must've read through Zaphaudio's tests page on tweeters ... it's a lovely collection of data points. I've yet to find any reason to spend any more money than the Seas 27TBFC/G or 27TDFC for any conventional speaker at any price point. And both these are cheaper than Corrson's Vifa collection.
Angshu has used the Peerless India SR10DT (Fs of 2k) with an LR4 slope, at an Fc of 2.5k. It sounds sweet. You will find a lot of such examples in the DIY designs with various tweeters, all of which roundly trounce that rule of thumb about 2*Fs. Zaphaudio says the North D25 can be crossed over as low as 1600Hz, while its Fs is almost 1kHz. Those rules are just starting points; you have to build, measure, and listen, not necessarily in that order.
Lowering the cap value and increasing the series resistor value are both options. They would both fall in the category of "response shaping", I guess. I've decided to leave the Asawari as it is after listening tests ... I don't think any further tweaks are necessary. But thanks for the suggestions.
In fact, this tuning thing is so strange that experienced constructors have reporting trying to build well-known DIY designs and hating the sound. The problem is that the xo is not tuned to this constructor's taste. You also see huge differences in the perspectives of different veteran designers. Some say that if the cone breakup peaks can be suppressed to 30-35dB, that's adequate. Others use Cauer-elliptic filters to suppress them to almost twice this amount (60dB+). So, designs done by others and rules of thumb are quite far from your satisfaction in your particular case, I feel.
Hats off to you Tarun!
I can only imagine the effort put into creating the ASAWARIS.
Your project will no doubt be an inspiration for all us Indians dreaming of going the DIY way with wholly built Indian drive units.
The techniques used in your cabinet building will be most useful for budding Indian DIYers such as myself .
The presentation is excellent..love the layout and the detailed insight into your creation.
Regards,
Sachi
I can only imagine the effort put into creating the ASAWARIS.
Your project will no doubt be an inspiration for all us Indians dreaming of going the DIY way with wholly built Indian drive units.
The techniques used in your cabinet building will be most useful for budding Indian DIYers such as myself
.The presentation is excellent..love the layout and the detailed insight into your creation.
Regards,
Sachi
Thanks for sharing, tcpip
Your is a wonderful story, told in a beautiful way. Much of the best things that I have learnt in speakerbuilding came from experience -mostly that of others. It is rarely that we bother to put those experiences down in the way you have, and fewer still can tell it the way you do.
About the North D25: I have employed this tweeter in a centre channel speaker (sideways MTM). I chose it especially for its ability to cross over so low, but in practice was not able to do so, due to the actual frequency response after mounting it (this could be due to edge diffraction). But I also have North D28S-06's. These appear to be higher-end drivers, and I wonder if you might not get better value from these? Perhaps you could ask Zaph? I have not yet used the D28S-06's, so I don't know myself.
Your is a wonderful story, told in a beautiful way. Much of the best things that I have learnt in speakerbuilding came from experience -mostly that of others. It is rarely that we bother to put those experiences down in the way you have, and fewer still can tell it the way you do.
About the North D25: I have employed this tweeter in a centre channel speaker (sideways MTM). I chose it especially for its ability to cross over so low, but in practice was not able to do so, due to the actual frequency response after mounting it (this could be due to edge diffraction). But I also have North D28S-06's. These appear to be higher-end drivers, and I wonder if you might not get better value from these? Perhaps you could ask Zaph? I have not yet used the D28S-06's, so I don't know myself.
tcpip said:
Yes, and the customs bill of 5.8K on the total invoice. Shipping was $80 or so, and my total bill included about $60 of crossover parts (copper-foil inductors) - the Madisound raw total was $270 or so, after shipping it was about $360 - my credit card bill was about 16K, and I paid duty to the courier guy with a proper customs bill. The drivers make it look like it was actually worth it though, and budget isn't a criteria right now - but I'd rather spend on this design than a pair of Dynes. Just to see what it is I'm getting.
I stay in Bandra West, and I'm not so much in a hurry as eager to know somebody who's done something like this before and can understand the importance of doing things right than just doing them. While you're at it, how can I find Dev electronics?
I've seen some superb pieces of work with plywood, those were apparently done with sanding and sealing the plywood first, then applying a wood stain and finishing with auto lacquer. But it wasn't made in India (Taiwan IIRC). I also handle a furniture business as one of my clients, so let me see if I can get one of their guys to do something for me.
Oh really, how much did those cost you? Sounds interesting. Maybe they would have wound your 220 uH coil if you said it was .22 mH ... 17 SWG should be around 15 AWG, not bad but I would have preferred slightly thicker wire. I had not even considered them earlier because the website said 17 and 22 guage - I assumed it was AWG - which were way too thin anyway.
On the other hand, 14AWG for your tweeter parallel coil was overkill IMO, I'm using 19 AWG for my parallel coils and 14 AWG foil coils for the woofers.
Good to see you're planning on other tweeters, I hadn't seen that page
I would still urge to try out slightly more expensive tweeters instead of the North, your filter may get very complex to be able to handle both the slopes if you're insisting on staying with 6" mids.
One suggestion from my end for SOA (Son of Asawari) is to bring the midwoofers closer to each other, and since your flush mounting method is so innovative
try flush mounting them. If similar drivers are available in a 5", maybe try those out?My supposition was based on the fact that SPL curves may not actually be telling the whole story, most experienced builders on the web acknowledge that the listenability of a speaker is not told well by curves alone, and distortion of various forms (or its lack) is a better guage of speaker sonics than SPL curves.
Since you've decided to leave it as it is, that's great. As long as you're happy with the results it's all that matters. I would still try to drop a second inductor on the lower woofer to add some more BSC, and lower the first woofer inductor to the textbook value based on Fc. Zaph documents this on his 2.5 waveguide project, but that's a TMM, not MTM so I suppose the topology will be significantly different.
Great learning from you, Tarun, the design looks like a labour of love, and look forward to the sequel to the hit!
tcpip said:
After adding shipping and customs IME, they're not quite as cheap. However they're worth the money, even if you pay 70-80 to the dollar. It's just that then the D25AG makes a wee bit of sense.
I don't like to seem like taking sides, but I checked Corrson's prices with Madisound, and find that the costs are pretty reasonable (they work out to 52-53 per dollar compared to the 80 odd that I ended up paying due to shipping and customs).
I just didn't wan't to be stuck with ancient drivers. For the benefit of everybody else, the best they have is the P17/D25AG combo. If they had the XG/XT or the Scanspeaks, I know who would have had my money. If they do bring those in, they can count on my business. Unfortunately every time I've asked for something outside the range available on the web, I don't get a response from them.
Their MTM floorstander is available at around the same price you built yours for. I have not heard it and I seriously doubt their cabinet is a tenth well-made as yours, but it is available in India and seems to be fairly listenable - plus the P17 would be much easier to work with in a multi-way system. It just didn't make much sense to me to use such old drivers, plus Zaph's design was well-documented and I want to hear a good metal system.
BTW your midwoofers resemble Davis Kevlars and when I saw the pic first I was like, OK, this guy is rich! He can spend on $175 woofers!
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