I was at my local electronics supply shop, and saw a bunch of speakers for sale at a decent price. They are made by a company called Audioyin and each speaker (except for the 12" model) says "Designed by 3F" on the back.
The thing is, they look like they're fairly well-built (for cheap speakers, that is) and have quite a bit of in/out movement on the cones. I have heard anecdotal stories of people who've been buying these things up to muck around with them, but I can't find ANYTHING online about them.
Does anyone here know what the heck these speakers are all about? If I grabbed one, how would I drum up the info I'd need to do some box design around it?
I'll attach a picture of the 6" that I'd like to muck around with...
Cheers,
Chris
The thing is, they look like they're fairly well-built (for cheap speakers, that is) and have quite a bit of in/out movement on the cones. I have heard anecdotal stories of people who've been buying these things up to muck around with them, but I can't find ANYTHING online about them.
Does anyone here know what the heck these speakers are all about? If I grabbed one, how would I drum up the info I'd need to do some box design around it?
I'll attach a picture of the 6" that I'd like to muck around with...
Cheers,
Chris
Attachments
So now that we've demonstrated that these speakers are absolutely and completely unknown, what do you guys suggest would be the worst that could happen if I designed around them?
I guess another way to word that is as follows. How bad can bad speakers be? I'm no audiophile by any means, but I can tell when something sounds more like a clock radio than a decent stereo speaker set.
I will be picking up a few of these drivers to check them out and measure the T/S parameters tonight and get back to you all. We'll see how bad they are soon enough.
Just wondering how bad this experience could possibly be, I guess. Don't want to get my hopes up if there are some *really* bad speakers out there to be purchased...
Thanks,
Chris
I guess another way to word that is as follows. How bad can bad speakers be? I'm no audiophile by any means, but I can tell when something sounds more like a clock radio than a decent stereo speaker set.
I will be picking up a few of these drivers to check them out and measure the T/S parameters tonight and get back to you all. We'll see how bad they are soon enough.
Just wondering how bad this experience could possibly be, I guess. Don't want to get my hopes up if there are some *really* bad speakers out there to be purchased...
Thanks,
Chris
The cone appears to be a treated paper. The dust cap is about 2 1/4" wide. Seems to have the ability to push a lot of air, too.
Along with this driver, I purchased a Sharp 25TB374A tweeter. It seems to also work just fine.
I measured the T/S of the driver (except for Vas, since I have no boxes to test in), and got the following:
Qms: 2.69
Qes: 0.69
Qts: 0.55
Fs: 51Hz
Do you guys know of any alternate possible methods of computing Vas without any special equipment, or is it an absolute requirement to build a test box in order to measure that (apparently) crucial number so I can start measuring to build the "real" box?
Any help is appreciated. I'd love to make something decent out of just this woofer and a tweeter. Plugging both of them in on seperate channels seems to cover about all the range I'd need, and it's just "hot" in the mids. I'm sure an adequate crossover can make these two parts sing together.
Also, is it commonplace to use the same methods as listed at the ESP page for measuring your own T/S parameters for a tweeter? Is it even necessary?
Thanks,
Chris
Along with this driver, I purchased a Sharp 25TB374A tweeter. It seems to also work just fine.
I measured the T/S of the driver (except for Vas, since I have no boxes to test in), and got the following:
Qms: 2.69
Qes: 0.69
Qts: 0.55
Fs: 51Hz
Do you guys know of any alternate possible methods of computing Vas without any special equipment, or is it an absolute requirement to build a test box in order to measure that (apparently) crucial number so I can start measuring to build the "real" box?
Any help is appreciated. I'd love to make something decent out of just this woofer and a tweeter. Plugging both of them in on seperate channels seems to cover about all the range I'd need, and it's just "hot" in the mids. I'm sure an adequate crossover can make these two parts sing together.
Also, is it commonplace to use the same methods as listed at the ESP page for measuring your own T/S parameters for a tweeter? Is it even necessary?
Thanks,
Chris
yeah theres a russian forum mentioning an audioyin 10" speaker thats it.
http://forum.ixbt.com/post.cgi?id=print:47:1940
"Well I made it is obtained rather well truth on Audioyin y0&.tsuot;, to obtain lineinuyu ACHKH with one dynamic loudspeaker did not come out it was necessary to 2 to place in the compound (on the level of -db 24 hz, db on moduliu 27-190 hz it came out) Of yashik of 69 liters phase inverter two tunelya with the diameter of "shchmm. Of usilitel to STK4044Xi 100w "
http://forum.ixbt.com/post.cgi?id=print:47:1940
"Well I made it is obtained rather well truth on Audioyin y0&.tsuot;, to obtain lineinuyu ACHKH with one dynamic loudspeaker did not come out it was necessary to 2 to place in the compound (on the level of -db 24 hz, db on moduliu 27-190 hz it came out) Of yashik of 69 liters phase inverter two tunelya with the diameter of "shchmm. Of usilitel to STK4044Xi 100w "
I found that russian link through Google as well, which didn't enlighten me much. Thank you Babelfish!
Anyhoo, the guy at the store I bought them from said that the manufacturer listed in his database is 'North'. Does that ring any bells for anyone?
The speaker itself seems to be quite decent at handling a big hunk of the frequency range. I bet that if I cut it off around 3k Hz or so, it would be well enough to handle most of what I threw at it. The tweeter I'm using also appears to be quite capable, but I'm having a hard time measuring its resonant frequency and -3db points... Some more time graphing things in Excel should help me figure it out and give me a better picture of what's going on.
So has anyone else heard of 'north' as a speaker manufacturer? Anyone? Bueller? GRACE!!
Thanks,
Chris
Anyhoo, the guy at the store I bought them from said that the manufacturer listed in his database is 'North'. Does that ring any bells for anyone?
The speaker itself seems to be quite decent at handling a big hunk of the frequency range. I bet that if I cut it off around 3k Hz or so, it would be well enough to handle most of what I threw at it. The tweeter I'm using also appears to be quite capable, but I'm having a hard time measuring its resonant frequency and -3db points... Some more time graphing things in Excel should help me figure it out and give me a better picture of what's going on.
So has anyone else heard of 'north' as a speaker manufacturer? Anyone? Bueller? GRACE!!
Thanks,
Chris
Tape the driver to a bucket, a cardboard box anything,
and measure Fb, Fb = Fs x square root (Vas/Vb+1).
The other method is added mass to the cone, measuring F.
Q of 0.55 would normally mean sealed box loading, but as
Fs is quite high, Vas will be low, so reflexing is possible.
But a box = Vas, Q will be 0.78, Fb = 72Hz.
1.5 x Vas is a sensible max volume, Q = 0.72, Fb = 66Hz,
you can just about reflex this, not a standard alignment.
Vb = 1.5 Vas, port f = 37Hz.
sreten.
and measure Fb, Fb = Fs x square root (Vas/Vb+1).
The other method is added mass to the cone, measuring F.
Q of 0.55 would normally mean sealed box loading, but as
Fs is quite high, Vas will be low, so reflexing is possible.
But a box = Vas, Q will be 0.78, Fb = 72Hz.
1.5 x Vas is a sensible max volume, Q = 0.72, Fb = 66Hz,
you can just about reflex this, not a standard alignment.
Vb = 1.5 Vas, port f = 37Hz.
sreten.Attachments
I tried my hand at the 'known mass' method last night, and got a shifted resonant frequency that appeared to be higher than the original resonant frequency...
I think that my setup is quite flawed when I use that method, or maybe my DMM is not flat across the frequency range (quite likely).
I will probably try to attach the speaker to some sort of shoebox to test this out, but I am unsure about that giving me enough volume to play with, or if it would be stiff enough.
So assume that I get my known mass method working. What is the equation I use to measure Vas? I noticed that the link I provided above didn't provide an equation to calculate Vas using the known mass, and instead provided a form for me to fill in. I would prefer to have the calculation myself that I can plug into my own spreadsheet.
Thanks,
Chris
I think that my setup is quite flawed when I use that method, or maybe my DMM is not flat across the frequency range (quite likely).
I will probably try to attach the speaker to some sort of shoebox to test this out, but I am unsure about that giving me enough volume to play with, or if it would be stiff enough.
So assume that I get my known mass method working. What is the equation I use to measure Vas? I noticed that the link I provided above didn't provide an equation to calculate Vas using the known mass, and instead provided a form for me to fill in. I would prefer to have the calculation myself that I can plug into my own spreadsheet.
Thanks,
Chris
I have measured and re-measured this speaker, and have the following measurements:
Qms: 3.479
Qes: 1.326
Qts: 0.960
Vas: 21.51
Plugging these values into equations for vented and sealed enclosures is not giving me very nice results. Are these speakers crappy for having such a high Qts value? I have been using ciclotron's "Best Ever T/S Calculation" spreadsheet, which is pretty easy to use. Unfortunately, the results are not to my liking.
The results I listed earlier in the thread were calculated using the method shown on the ESP site.
So is this speaker garbage, or should I try a different measurement method? I'm on a Mac, so Speaker Workshop is out of the question. Also, there's no way I'm building a jig just to measure this one speaker.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Chris
Qms: 3.479
Qes: 1.326
Qts: 0.960
Vas: 21.51
Plugging these values into equations for vented and sealed enclosures is not giving me very nice results. Are these speakers crappy for having such a high Qts value? I have been using ciclotron's "Best Ever T/S Calculation" spreadsheet, which is pretty easy to use. Unfortunately, the results are not to my liking.
The results I listed earlier in the thread were calculated using the method shown on the ESP site.
So is this speaker garbage, or should I try a different measurement method? I'm on a Mac, so Speaker Workshop is out of the question. Also, there's no way I'm building a jig just to measure this one speaker.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Chris
I have no clue how the measurement has changed since the first time I tried it.
Maybe the speaker is breaking in, but it's gravitating towards getting worse rather than better.
Also, I've done measurements across the speaker terminals, and measure the peak in voltage. Earlier I did the method that included the "across the Rs resistor" measurement, and that turned up a 0.5-ish Qts.
So confusing!
I don't know what I could possibly be doing wrong here. Perhaps using a 1k ohm resistor is not as accurate as using a lower-value resistor?
Chris
Maybe the speaker is breaking in, but it's gravitating towards getting worse rather than better.
Also, I've done measurements across the speaker terminals, and measure the peak in voltage. Earlier I did the method that included the "across the Rs resistor" measurement, and that turned up a 0.5-ish Qts.
So confusing!
I don't know what I could possibly be doing wrong here. Perhaps using a 1k ohm resistor is not as accurate as using a lower-value resistor?
Chris
I just realized I may be doing something wrong in my measurements, so please enlighten me.
Are the voltage levels measured supposed to be RMS or peak-to-peak? I used a scope the first time to measure the peak-to-peak level of the output sine wave, and then I used an AC voltmeter (operating at RMS, I guess) for the voltage measurements across the resistor afterwards.
Is it possible that I'm getting an incorrect voltage reading off the amp and that's screwing with my calculations?
When I get home I will try multiplying the value of the amp voltage by sqrt(2) to see if there's a difference.
There HAS to be something wrong with my measurement system, because these speakers sound like they're pretty darned fine when I pump music through them in open air. I won't accept that they're garbage.
Chris
Are the voltage levels measured supposed to be RMS or peak-to-peak? I used a scope the first time to measure the peak-to-peak level of the output sine wave, and then I used an AC voltmeter (operating at RMS, I guess) for the voltage measurements across the resistor afterwards.
Is it possible that I'm getting an incorrect voltage reading off the amp and that's screwing with my calculations?
When I get home I will try multiplying the value of the amp voltage by sqrt(2) to see if there's a difference.
There HAS to be something wrong with my measurement system, because these speakers sound like they're pretty darned fine when I pump music through them in open air. I won't accept that they're garbage.
Chris
sreten said:Your voltage measurement method needs to be consistent.
A driver with Q=0.96 will sound fine driven unboxed.
If it sounds fine unboxed, is that different than open-air? Is it being fortified solely by the baffle for sound? I know nothing about these mystic open-baffle beasts.
Thanks,
Chris
This is getting far more interesting each time I visit my electronics shop...
I only purchased one of the 6" drivers the last time I was there, and was waiting on a new shipment from their head office to get the matching driver. Sure enough, the new batch was COMPLETELY different.
The thing is, these new ones are still marked A6100, but there is now a small "grill" on the back of the magnet, and the dust cap has changed to the "no bump in the middle" style speaker. Also, the cone has gone from treated paper to pure plastic (or whatever fancy name you want to call it). Oh yeah, and now the name on the back of the magnet is "Power Pro Audio" as opposed to "Audioyin". Jeez, it just keeps getting more bizarre.
I re-measured the speaker and got similar results for Qts, though. Overall, it still does seem to sound a lot better than the last one. We'll see how it works in good time.
I will do some full measurements one of these days, when I can run an app that can do sweeps for me more easily.
I am starting to feel like I'm talking to myself here. *shrug*
I only purchased one of the 6" drivers the last time I was there, and was waiting on a new shipment from their head office to get the matching driver. Sure enough, the new batch was COMPLETELY different.
The thing is, these new ones are still marked A6100, but there is now a small "grill" on the back of the magnet, and the dust cap has changed to the "no bump in the middle" style speaker. Also, the cone has gone from treated paper to pure plastic (or whatever fancy name you want to call it). Oh yeah, and now the name on the back of the magnet is "Power Pro Audio" as opposed to "Audioyin". Jeez, it just keeps getting more bizarre.
I re-measured the speaker and got similar results for Qts, though. Overall, it still does seem to sound a lot better than the last one. We'll see how it works in good time.
I will do some full measurements one of these days, when I can run an app that can do sweeps for me more easily.
I am starting to feel like I'm talking to myself here. *shrug*
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