Looking to get serious about building some speakers, among other things. I'm looking at this Deta Delta 36-650
http://www.woodnet.net/toolreviews/tablesaws/tablesaws_delta.html
Any suggestions? I want a large work surface and a serious rip fence.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.woodnet.net/toolreviews/tablesaws/tablesaws_delta.html
Any suggestions? I want a large work surface and a serious rip fence.
I have something similar to this:
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/media/w00102_13.jpg
Except the table space on either side of the saw proper is 48". The saw is a Craftsman, similar to the delta pic you posted, but without the metal legs. I also replaced the fence with a Besmeyer.
If you have the room and are serious I'll take a few pics for you.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/media/w00102_13.jpg
Except the table space on either side of the saw proper is 48". The saw is a Craftsman, similar to the delta pic you posted, but without the metal legs. I also replaced the fence with a Besmeyer.
If you have the room and are serious I'll take a few pics for you.
I would do some searching on the Ryobi BT3100. There's quite a following for them. People mod the hell out of them. http://www.bt3central.com
I bought one and am really pleased with it. Easy to align, fence works well, cuts square. For $300, I'm keeping it. The $100 accessory kit is worthwhile as well.
The pieces I cut for my MB20s and Ellis 1801's came out as perfect as I could ever hope for even with the stock blade.
It's very smooth and seems to have adequate power for my MDF and plywood cutting, mainly 3/4".
The $100 accessory kit allows you to turn it into a router table using the stock fence, wheels, zero clearance throat plate, etc.
I bought one and am really pleased with it. Easy to align, fence works well, cuts square. For $300, I'm keeping it. The $100 accessory kit is worthwhile as well.
The pieces I cut for my MB20s and Ellis 1801's came out as perfect as I could ever hope for even with the stock blade.
It's very smooth and seems to have adequate power for my MDF and plywood cutting, mainly 3/4".
The $100 accessory kit allows you to turn it into a router table using the stock fence, wheels, zero clearance throat plate, etc.
Bill Fitzpatrick said:
Wow that's an impressive rig. Saw looks like the cabinet saws I've seen. I don't have room for that kind of table wings but hope to build a wood shop in the future that would. Looks like you do some very serious wood work. Any suggestions on what to look for or what kind of accessories are a must have?
My personal opinion... like the picture that Bill posted... nothing beats having a straight heavy duty table and a solid fence. Bells and whistles not needed. I have a Rigid TS3650, it's great. It costed a bit more than the Ryobis but it has a completely cast iron top and a solid fence+brake. My biggest table saw pet peeve is a shoddy fence and brake on the fence. Those folded sheet metal things are crap. The fence on it will cut up to 36" on the long side and, I think, 12" on the short side which means it has about 30" of actual table space plus the rails go out farther.
Oh yeah, and it comes with wheels and a lift system so that you can store it away after you're done using it...
http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/TS3650-Table-Saw/
Oh yeah, and it comes with wheels and a lift system so that you can store it away after you're done using it...
http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/TS3650-Table-Saw/
The fence on the Ryobi is an aluminum extrusion.
For sure, the Rigid's are nice. What steered me away from them were horror stories relating to Rigid recently selling/moving their wood tools manufacture overseas. A search might be warranted so you know what other people are experiencing.
There are a lot of Rigid tools being sold at blow out pricing right now. This makes me believe that the new Rigid brand tools will be all new designs from the new manufacturer. Whether these will be better/worse remains to be seen. However, buying the older products might make it difficult for support/parts in the future. Regardless of what's true or not, it made me nervous.
Kind of sad because I didn't see much else in the Rigid price range that looked as nice. Next stop after Rigid might be the Powermatic 64A but that's $850+.
For sure, the Rigid's are nice. What steered me away from them were horror stories relating to Rigid recently selling/moving their wood tools manufacture overseas. A search might be warranted so you know what other people are experiencing.
There are a lot of Rigid tools being sold at blow out pricing right now. This makes me believe that the new Rigid brand tools will be all new designs from the new manufacturer. Whether these will be better/worse remains to be seen. However, buying the older products might make it difficult for support/parts in the future. Regardless of what's true or not, it made me nervous.
Kind of sad because I didn't see much else in the Rigid price range that looked as nice. Next stop after Rigid might be the Powermatic 64A but that's $850+.
Go with the delta..you can't go wrong.....you are going to be using it for home ...you're not making a living with it....it's a good product...next step up I would recommend the General which is a top notch(lifetime) machine..
or the smaller one..
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
or the smaller one..
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Here is a pic of the table saw I am currently using. It is primarily used for cutting aluminium and masonite for a sign making factory. Never had a problem and I am sure I will miss it deeply if I ever lose access to it.
While we are on the topic of tools what routers are people using? Any good or bad experiences?
While we are on the topic of tools what routers are people using? Any good or bad experiences?
Attachments
Table Saw
The Delta is fine. I use one, though I have an added cast extension left side, and a melamine extension to the right. Allows about 32" right of the blade and still use the fence, maybe 20" left.
Also came with an upgraded fence. The thing sold so equipped as a package for around $750 (Contractor's Saw?) on sale. If you watch carefully and want the extra length and better fence, Delta tool suppliers put them on promotion about twice a year.
No matter what size you get, it won't be big enough. Ever. Or it will be too big to move around easily. Everything get stacked or assembled on the saw, it seems. And you will figure ways to try and cut larger and larger pieces on it.
I just glued up a pair of 48" x 36" x 16" bookcases (actually audio gear cases) on mine.
The cabinet saws are great, though heavy beasts, and usually require at least 208v 1ph, sometimes 3 phase wiring. Pick one up used if you've got the wiring. If 1 1/2" or 2" thick stuff is as big as you intend to cut, then you will not need the extra power, but they can often be had cheap used and are built well. Most can be trued up fairly easily no matter the age, and Grizzly sells motors. Some do require larger arbor blades, which are more costly.
If judging new 10" saws, go by the amp rating on the motor, with 11 or 12 equivalent to a single horsepower. 1 1/2 HP is a common motor rating but the amperage rating can vary significantly among marketing types. Cutting thick hardwood, or cutting heavy stuff at an angle is where the power is needed.
The accuracy of the cut is directly related to the fence not moving (assuming it is parallel to the blade) when under pressure. Throw a big piece of mdf or plywood on the saw, then shove hard against it.
Many of the cheaper models' fences flex at the far end under pressure, and the cut will suffer. Bessemeyer is probably the king of good add-on fences, and Delta offers these as an upgrade.
All saws need to be adjustable as far as arbor and blade angle, motor pulleys, attaching the blade, etc. Make sure yours can be re-aligned easily.
Essential stuff: Large "off" palm switch, rollers, various blade types, push blocks, safety glasses, crosscut sled (you build with new saw as a first project), mitre bars, shop vac. When funds permit, a really top quality set of dado blades and table insert is a big help for better joinery.
You'll still need a circular saw and jig saw for getting 4 x 8 sheets cut down to a manageable size, or making unusual shapes, but a good table saw is really a great tool for speaker builders...or woodworkers in general. Make a work table while you're at it. You will probably need it.
Tim
The Delta is fine. I use one, though I have an added cast extension left side, and a melamine extension to the right. Allows about 32" right of the blade and still use the fence, maybe 20" left.
Also came with an upgraded fence. The thing sold so equipped as a package for around $750 (Contractor's Saw?) on sale. If you watch carefully and want the extra length and better fence, Delta tool suppliers put them on promotion about twice a year.
No matter what size you get, it won't be big enough. Ever. Or it will be too big to move around easily. Everything get stacked or assembled on the saw, it seems. And you will figure ways to try and cut larger and larger pieces on it.
I just glued up a pair of 48" x 36" x 16" bookcases (actually audio gear cases) on mine.
The cabinet saws are great, though heavy beasts, and usually require at least 208v 1ph, sometimes 3 phase wiring. Pick one up used if you've got the wiring. If 1 1/2" or 2" thick stuff is as big as you intend to cut, then you will not need the extra power, but they can often be had cheap used and are built well. Most can be trued up fairly easily no matter the age, and Grizzly sells motors. Some do require larger arbor blades, which are more costly.
If judging new 10" saws, go by the amp rating on the motor, with 11 or 12 equivalent to a single horsepower. 1 1/2 HP is a common motor rating but the amperage rating can vary significantly among marketing types. Cutting thick hardwood, or cutting heavy stuff at an angle is where the power is needed.
The accuracy of the cut is directly related to the fence not moving (assuming it is parallel to the blade) when under pressure. Throw a big piece of mdf or plywood on the saw, then shove hard against it.
Many of the cheaper models' fences flex at the far end under pressure, and the cut will suffer. Bessemeyer is probably the king of good add-on fences, and Delta offers these as an upgrade.
All saws need to be adjustable as far as arbor and blade angle, motor pulleys, attaching the blade, etc. Make sure yours can be re-aligned easily.
Essential stuff: Large "off" palm switch, rollers, various blade types, push blocks, safety glasses, crosscut sled (you build with new saw as a first project), mitre bars, shop vac. When funds permit, a really top quality set of dado blades and table insert is a big help for better joinery.
You'll still need a circular saw and jig saw for getting 4 x 8 sheets cut down to a manageable size, or making unusual shapes, but a good table saw is really a great tool for speaker builders...or woodworkers in general. Make a work table while you're at it. You will probably need it.
Tim
Table Saws cont'd..
I use a 5 h.p. 10" General Model 350, with an Excalibur fence.
What is your budget?? IF you want to cut large panels, rigidity and accuracy is more important than power..
A table saw alone is not enough- you will need the room to manouver the material, and a good outfeed table to support the stock..
If you are so inclined, purchasing a heavier-duty used saw (and tuning it up) is frequently a better idea... Some of the open base saws tend to flex, and this can be problematic...
Whatever make and model you buy, the conventionally- designed fences are typically very poor. There are a number of aftermarket fences that substantially improve the accuracy (and enjoyment) of the saw...
Best of luck with your shopping :>)
I use a 5 h.p. 10" General Model 350, with an Excalibur fence.
What is your budget?? IF you want to cut large panels, rigidity and accuracy is more important than power..
A table saw alone is not enough- you will need the room to manouver the material, and a good outfeed table to support the stock..
If you are so inclined, purchasing a heavier-duty used saw (and tuning it up) is frequently a better idea... Some of the open base saws tend to flex, and this can be problematic...
Whatever make and model you buy, the conventionally- designed fences are typically very poor. There are a number of aftermarket fences that substantially improve the accuracy (and enjoyment) of the saw...
Best of luck with your shopping :>)
ultrachrome said:
FYI: Ridgid is upscale Ryobi...Like Honda/Acura. There are others that do this also, Blackened Decker/Dewalt is another. In my opinion the Ridgid tools I've used are top notch. I have not used one of their table saws though. I have an ancient cast iron General at home, and a Delta at work. The fence on the Delta is insanely overbuilt, but it's some super industrial unit...huge saw.
I recommend you check all models in your price range, that are available to you, in person. Look at and feel the fence, slide it around, feel how solid/or not it is, check for play. I recommend a belt drive, much smoother than a direct drive. You can always add wings later, buy prefab or build your own support tables, if space is limited you can use roller stands and put them away when finished. When you do finally get a saw build a sliding feed table, they are much more accurate, faster, safer and easier to use than fences, especially when cutting small pieces...a feed table is a large board that slides in the channels on the table with a fence at the back instead of the side. And be very very careful. The saw is a ***** goddess, it gives with one hand and takes with the other. I lost a finger and have limited movement in two others due to kick back at the worst possible moment...when my hand was just a few inches away from the blade...the work piece hit my hand and knocked it into the blade. I have to admit I don't regret it happening but don't recommend anybody learn that lesson first hand. Never hurry.
Oh... my number one buying tip for anything(or dating), buy the one that will make you feel secure in your purchase. Don't buy one that will make you keep thinking about the one you should have bought.
Edit* The sliding feed table is commonly called a "sled" or "panel jig"
Ridgid
A little history about Ridgid power tools. Emerson used to have a contract with Sears to build thier Craftsman tools. A few years ago, Emerson lost that contract and started making the same tools for Home Depot under the name Ridgid. My constuction company owns several Ridgid tools. Their bigger shop vacs are great. the filters are easily replaced and very effective at not spewing more dust into the air than they pick up. The big 14" abraisive cut off saws are also tough and well made. I have 4 of them and consider them every bit as well made as my Milwakee and Dewalt.
If their new power tools are made overseas, I would give them a good look for signs of cheapness. Many marketing types build a good name then cash it in selling $hit to the big box stores until people realise what they've done. Dewalt makes one set of drills that it sells to Lowes and Home Depot that isn't worth a crap compaired to the ones that I buy from a local industial supplier. 75% of the sods that think they got a deal saving $100 have never used a cordless drill all day for a year to know what a good on last like.
Whatch out for Delta. They used to make only top notch tools, But they sold out when they started advertising on Norm's shows. (Porter Cable too) I bought a delta cordless that was on clearance for too good of a price. I use it for a foot prop under my computer desk.
A little history about Ridgid power tools. Emerson used to have a contract with Sears to build thier Craftsman tools. A few years ago, Emerson lost that contract and started making the same tools for Home Depot under the name Ridgid. My constuction company owns several Ridgid tools. Their bigger shop vacs are great. the filters are easily replaced and very effective at not spewing more dust into the air than they pick up. The big 14" abraisive cut off saws are also tough and well made. I have 4 of them and consider them every bit as well made as my Milwakee and Dewalt.
If their new power tools are made overseas, I would give them a good look for signs of cheapness. Many marketing types build a good name then cash it in selling $hit to the big box stores until people realise what they've done. Dewalt makes one set of drills that it sells to Lowes and Home Depot that isn't worth a crap compaired to the ones that I buy from a local industial supplier. 75% of the sods that think they got a deal saving $100 have never used a cordless drill all day for a year to know what a good on last like.
Whatch out for Delta. They used to make only top notch tools, But they sold out when they started advertising on Norm's shows. (Porter Cable too) I bought a delta cordless that was on clearance for too good of a price. I use it for a foot prop under my computer desk.
Hi all!
my first post
Just on the subject of panel saws, Iv'e got a joinery shop and currently have 2 3.6 mtr sliding panel saws and a 5 mtr beam saw. I've always got guys in my street and around, asking if they could get some stuff done. Generally it's no problem. If you need supper accruate cuts look around for a local joinery shop and just ask.
The stuff I've seen here is great for work around the house but be really careful when using them. They are a cheaper alternative with less saftey features and fingers can be lost very easily
. Be aware of where your gut is too, the kickback is powerful and can cause internal injuries.
my first post
Just on the subject of panel saws, Iv'e got a joinery shop and currently have 2 3.6 mtr sliding panel saws and a 5 mtr beam saw. I've always got guys in my street and around, asking if they could get some stuff done. Generally it's no problem. If you need supper accruate cuts look around for a local joinery shop and just ask.
The stuff I've seen here is great for work around the house but be really careful when using them. They are a cheaper alternative with less saftey features and fingers can be lost very easily
. Be aware of where your gut is too, the kickback is powerful and can cause internal injuries.There are, of course, a number of good saws out there that will work well. How serious you are about woodworking will determine whether the investment in a better saw is justified. My 2 cents:
-bench top saws are too limited in performance; the upgrade to a contractor's saw is well worth it.
-A great saw with a poor fence is worthless; a poor saw with a great fence is quite useful.
-If you ever get serious about woodworking, a cabinet saw is very desirable.
Personally, I have a Grizzly cabinet saw with a biesmeyer style fence. It can be ordered over the internet, and while it is not quite as nice as the equivalent Delta or Powermatic, it can be had for much less money. Indeed, the Grizzley cost me about the same as a well equipped Delta contractor's saw. For a good review, go to http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/
-bench top saws are too limited in performance; the upgrade to a contractor's saw is well worth it.
-A great saw with a poor fence is worthless; a poor saw with a great fence is quite useful.
-If you ever get serious about woodworking, a cabinet saw is very desirable.
Personally, I have a Grizzly cabinet saw with a biesmeyer style fence. It can be ordered over the internet, and while it is not quite as nice as the equivalent Delta or Powermatic, it can be had for much less money. Indeed, the Grizzley cost me about the same as a well equipped Delta contractor's saw. For a good review, go to http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/
Wardsweb said:I've been into wood working as a hobby since my first wood shop class in 1974. For the last 20 years I've been using a little cheap 10" table top saw that I bolted to a custom table I built. Here is something I built with it in my garage.
Home theater entertainment center.
I did something similar. I was ready to throw away an old (15 year)
Ohio Forge 10" table saw because I stopped doing workworking
for a decade. It collected rust, the legs broke, etc. Then I decided
to clean it up. Remove the rust, square up the ends of the table
(cast iron), get a new, new blades, etc., and I installed a large
Vega fence and mounted this table saw carcass on a custom
designed table that has wheels (casters). Added a router table to the mix
so it's seemless and made my own slide fence and router fence
that slips over the Vega fence (with dust collection chamber).
In other words, a cheap table saw can do the job well if you
square it up, get a good aftermarket fence, and DIY the rest
of the accessories. Then good workwooding skills dominates
over the equipment you use. <-- hehe
Illusus said:
FYI the Ryobi comes stock with a sled. As a matter of fact you will not find another saw that will match the Ryobi for features at that price range. You mentioned that you hadn't tried a Rigid tablesaw, have you tried a Ryobi? For someone looking for a first saw it would be hard to go wrong with the Ryobi. It is my second saw and I've yet to outgrow it and that's using it daily to build furniture and remodel homes. I wouldn't say a thing about getting advice from someone missing a finger, I almost lost one myself and I know it can happen before you know it at any moment.
Yes, I use a Ryobi 3100 at my inlaws' shop. I do like it. I really like the performance/price ratio. After using it, and looking at the build quality (twin belt, machined pulleys...etc)I guessed the price to be around $500 + accessories, twice the actual cost. Comes with a great blade too. Very smooth and powerful. The quirky channels on the table forced me to rebuild/tweak some of my jigs, but if it is the only saw you use that's not a problem. I am considering replacing my old general with the 3100. A fine recommendation.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.