Advice: What Enclosure for a Klipsch K-33E 15" Driver
So I'm inheriting a complete set of drivers/horns and x-overs from my dad's set of Klipsch Belle's and was looking for DIY enclosure advice.
I lived with them for like 10 years listening to all sorts of music on them and honestly was never really impressed with the sound. They were in a fairly large room, but maybe it just wasn't big enough. And the room they'll be going in now is significantly smaller.
They were clear enough but I never got that transparent feeling with them and never got any significant sound stage. They were driven by a complete Nakamichi Stasis setup.
Everything I listened to on them sounded significantly better on my little Denon Receiver and B&W bookshelf speakers...
Apparently, my dad wasn't crazy about them either because he took the enclosure apart and used the wood for one of his woodworking projects and built a more traditional enclosure for them. They're nice but not as good as I think they could be.
So what would you do? Recreate the Belle enclosures or do something different?
Thanks in advance!
Phil
So I'm inheriting a complete set of drivers/horns and x-overs from my dad's set of Klipsch Belle's and was looking for DIY enclosure advice.
I lived with them for like 10 years listening to all sorts of music on them and honestly was never really impressed with the sound. They were in a fairly large room, but maybe it just wasn't big enough. And the room they'll be going in now is significantly smaller.
They were clear enough but I never got that transparent feeling with them and never got any significant sound stage. They were driven by a complete Nakamichi Stasis setup.
Everything I listened to on them sounded significantly better on my little Denon Receiver and B&W bookshelf speakers...
Apparently, my dad wasn't crazy about them either because he took the enclosure apart and used the wood for one of his woodworking projects and built a more traditional enclosure for them. They're nice but not as good as I think they could be.
So what would you do? Recreate the Belle enclosures or do something different?
Thanks in advance!
Phil
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I would think with a modest single ended tube amp, that in original form, they would have sounded decent (I'm only familiar with the K400 horn used in K-horn and La Scala - not the smaller/shorter midhorn used in Belle ). Go to the Klipsch forums, sign up and post under "Technical/Modifications"
Technical/Modifications - The Klipsch Audio Community
If a low Q/low mass woofer were used then it might help a bit to reduce the back chamber volume with foam blocks. That would sacrifice some of the bottom which K33 provides.
A ported base could be added under the Belle to enlarge its back chamber like DJK's vented La Scala mod. "Zobsky" built a Belle type with vents so has some opinions.
zobsky contemplates a variation on the belle klipsch
moving the tweeter to on top of the horn and back a ways in the plane with the midhorn compression driver might help with sound staging.
do you have K55? K77? K33_?
did you listen to them the whole time with the cabinets "modified" ? - what mods were made?
worse case, they should sell easily other than shipping
Technical/Modifications - The Klipsch Audio Community
If a low Q/low mass woofer were used then it might help a bit to reduce the back chamber volume with foam blocks. That would sacrifice some of the bottom which K33 provides.
A ported base could be added under the Belle to enlarge its back chamber like DJK's vented La Scala mod. "Zobsky" built a Belle type with vents so has some opinions.
zobsky contemplates a variation on the belle klipsch
moving the tweeter to on top of the horn and back a ways in the plane with the midhorn compression driver might help with sound staging.
do you have K55? K77? K33_?
did you listen to them the whole time with the cabinets "modified" ? - what mods were made?
worse case, they should sell easily other than shipping
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Hi
Below you can see my DIY Belle (JBL2225h) with JBL2446H JLMC 250Hz horn and 2402 tweeter. 2 Sub complete the low end (B&C18btw100&IMG-SP380tc).
I hope it can give you idea.
Vincent
Below you can see my DIY Belle (JBL2225h) with JBL2446H JLMC 250Hz horn and 2402 tweeter. 2 Sub complete the low end (B&C18btw100&IMG-SP380tc).
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I hope it can give you idea.
Vincent
I think that one problem with horn speakers is that you look at those very big boxes and expect very deep bass from them, and that you dont get! You get insane slam and effortless dynamics but not really deep bass from such a "small" horn. You could build something like the cornscala or if you like the looks of Heco Direct Dreiklang. (the wide baffle loading and the downward facing ports is nice, as is the tilted box).
I do like horns, I miss my DIY Klipsch corner horns
I do like horns, I miss my DIY Klipsch corner horns
here's what I get for Belle horn vs a Cornwall vented box 1pi 2V with old spec K33E
Old K33E specs Old K33E specs - djk - High Efficiency Speaker Asylum
I'll have to look up the University Classic model to see what it does with K33E
Old K33E specs Old K33E specs - djk - High Efficiency Speaker Asylum
I'll have to look up the University Classic model to see what it does with K33E
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FWIW, I think the "my room is significantly smaller" might be a key factor. I always consider the venue, and my personal opinion of any Klipsch I've ever heard aside (can you read between the lines?), depending on just how small that space is- and the listening position- they could be too much for the room.
If you decide to go another direction, there are probably enough fans of the brand that selling the drivers might not be a big problem?
If you decide to go another direction, there are probably enough fans of the brand that selling the drivers might not be a big problem?
Thanks for this... Looks like something I need to peruse...
Well, it's still a large Texas Living Room... Just not as big as my dad's... That said, It may not be a lot smaller. It's 16' x18' with concrete floors and wood paneling, large opening in the rear and side walls into the kitchen and family rooms respectively... Right now I have my Wharfedale W70s in there, and those speakers have changed the way I listen to music. Not sure if it's something about this particular set (I opened them up and it looks like they've never been touched) or what, but they sound really nice in there with incredible detail and an amazingly lifelike soundstage... I just got these on a whim to hold me over until I could build some OB's I had the drivers for, but they're so sweet in the room, I'm sticking with them for now and focusing on improving the rest of the system.
So if I keep the Klipsch, they'd have to beat out the W70s... Although I think it's time for a recap because I think I'm loosing a little top end detail.
That Cornscala on Bob Crite's site looks interesting.
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The university classic on it's side was kind of what I was picturing when I first started thinking about this. Thanks for the comparison.and if you want "big" - the University Classic horn vs Belle
40 liters rear chamber looks pretty good - use rigid foam blocks to reduce volume. Use good mouth bracing (applies to Belle too)
a lot of times I suggest a Karlson but K33E sounds like a toy in one compared to say an Altec 421
You're right. I looked them up. I think it's doable but certainly not a cake-walk. If I replicated them, I think it would probably be to sell, so that'd probably be a last resort, and more of just an exercise in fine woodworking.
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Thanks Freddi,
I'm not sure which drivers I have yet... I'm supposed to pick them up this weekend. He bought them in '86 though.
No I basically grew up with them in the original enclosures... (He wanted to give them to me when I was in college... No room but I wish I would have taken them in the enclosures) The new ones happened recently and I haven't really heard them. I'll post picks if I can find them on my phone.
They look like a bass reflex base and the horns in the original config on top... But much smaller enclosure.
Thanks for the links to, I'll look through them.
I think that one problem with horn speakers is that you look at those very big boxes and expect very deep bass from them, and that you dont get! You get insane slam and effortless dynamics but not really deep bass from such a "small" horn. You could build something like the cornscala or if you like the looks of Heco Direct Dreiklang. (the wide baffle loading and the downward facing ports is nice, as is the tilted box).
I do like horns, I miss my DIY Klipsch corner horns
When I was younger, the lack of bass really bugged me, but that wasn't my biggest gripe... It was the colored mids and highs... You could hear the horns, especially with my fresh ears and it irritated me. "Shouty" is a word I've heard, but that's not quite it with the Belles... Just a understandable difference in sound that didn't allow me to forget the monstrosities in front of me.
Also, I was kind of blown away as a kid listening to CDs in my room on the B&W bookshelf speakers and being able to hear where the musicians were for the first time, and wondering why my dads obnoxiously huge and expensive speakers didn't do the same thing.
My dad's friends were all on a Klipsch trip at the time too, so there were La Scalas and K-Horns to listen to as well... Most of them had gone with Sumo subs enclosures that were designed for the bottoms of the Klipsch speakers... That actually did help, with some good level control, but didn't quite get rid of what I was hearing and didn't like...
I used to get a big kick out of all the money they were spending when my little system still kicked their ***...
But now I'm older, and my tastes have changed, and I like the challenge, so I was going to give the Klipsch speakers another go.
Hi Phil.
I don't know what you're listening to these days but if a computer is involved build a cabinet that looks pretty and add dsp to play with. Add a sub if you want bass and current drivers don't go low enough. These changes will make a bigger difference by a mile than a slightly different enclosure.
I added Dirac software to my horn system and I really like the imaging. With Spotify I get a music library of 28 million songs for 10 bucks a month.
Happy days !
Grant.
here's a K33E I owned getting tested in a friend's K-coupler - bet it would be hard to drive it to xmax with regular music. With the left wing removed, you can see the vent spacers. It also had an adjustable rear lowpass shelf. A later version used curved reflector.
The X15 clone K-tube was tilted 30 degrees down from horizontal.
The X15 clone K-tube was tilted 30 degrees down from horizontal.
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Thanks Grant,
You would seem to be on track with just messing with the crossover points and gain ...
I actually went over yesterday (Couldn't help myself) and did a long listening session with all sorts of music in the existing enclosures.
They were better than I though, but not great to start. I was running them via a Sony Stereo Reciever with DSP off of my Iphone which has a bad headphone jack...
I started manipulating the crossover points and gains on the receiver, mainly just to see what it was capable of, and it really brought out the sweetness of the speakers... Moved the shouty mid back, brought out the highs and added authority to the bass...
Decent imagery there too, but not spectacular.
It got me thinking about going full active in a Linkwitz style bass bin OB with the horns, and a good active crossover, like picowallspeaker suggested...
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here's a K33E I owned getting tested in a friend's K-coupler - bet it would be hard to drive it to xmax with regular music. With the left wing removed, you can see the vent spacers. It also had an adjustable rear lowpass shelf. A later version used curved reflector.
The X15 clone K-tube was tilted 30 degrees down from horizontal.
Thanks for that fredi... That looks like and interesting Karlson...
And thanks for all the specs. I'm leaning toward trying the University Classic right now and am studying the data you provided.
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