You wouldn't want to use the TAD's with a passive radiator.. dowload the program Boxplot and play with it, (its easy). Remember that their is room gain to work with - so you don't want a flat response in the bass (try shooting for a -7db response at 20 Hz).
Again, Open baffles's will NOT effect sensitivity except where dipole cancelation occurs (below 400 Hz), which you will use as a highpass crossover slope (to crossover to your bass units - ask the dude making the crossover for you).
There is nothing saying you couldn't go to 15 inch woofers - in fact this expands your choices considerably.
Again, Open baffles's will NOT effect sensitivity except where dipole cancelation occurs (below 400 Hz), which you will use as a highpass crossover slope (to crossover to your bass units - ask the dude making the crossover for you).
There is nothing saying you couldn't go to 15 inch woofers - in fact this expands your choices considerably.
Thanks for the excellent info Dave…seems like they work out perfectly. Nice projects and craftsmanship BTW. The 2 way is the kind of system I’d build if I didn’t have the quads. The quads make me happy 90% of the time but for the other 10% I want something over the top explosive. That’s why I went for the 100db/watt phls and the electrovoice 18”ers (97db/watt). With transform I can get a F6 of 24 with a Q of 0.5 in a 31/2 ft3 that can produce 116 db at 40hz without room gain! All with reasonable amps ;-). My summer barbeques are going to rock.
My initial test show I can go down to 250hz on an 18” wide baffle that’s shaped kinda wing-ish (like the Kef Maidstone). It’s easy enough to try Michael, see if it sounds to your liking. I made a small open baffle system with a 5 1/2” vifa mid on a 14” baffle (11” face and one 3” wing) that with dipole cancellation and q rolloff allowed me to biamp with just a cap to the input of my mid/high amp and gave me a textbook slope. No active crossover at all to the mid/highs. Sounded great. The other nice thing is that using high output impedance amps like SE triodes actually helps extend the low freq range of the mids by raising the QTC. Like I said, easy enough to try. See if it works for you. I also agree with ScottG that 15’s will give you more choices. Tad makes some very pretty 16’s.
Hope that helps.
My initial test show I can go down to 250hz on an 18” wide baffle that’s shaped kinda wing-ish (like the Kef Maidstone). It’s easy enough to try Michael, see if it sounds to your liking. I made a small open baffle system with a 5 1/2” vifa mid on a 14” baffle (11” face and one 3” wing) that with dipole cancellation and q rolloff allowed me to biamp with just a cap to the input of my mid/high amp and gave me a textbook slope. No active crossover at all to the mid/highs. Sounded great. The other nice thing is that using high output impedance amps like SE triodes actually helps extend the low freq range of the mids by raising the QTC. Like I said, easy enough to try. See if it works for you. I also agree with ScottG that 15’s will give you more choices. Tad makes some very pretty 16’s.
Hope that helps.
Thank you for the help !
If baffle is bigger dipole cancelation occures in much lower frequencies?
If I use 15incher woofers the imaging would suffer because of less slim cabinet, isn't it?
So which 15" woofers are very good as an alternative choice to Tad 10".
Supravox 400-EXC
PHL 15"
TAD 15"
Any suggestions?
Supravox 400-EXC seems to me great! What do you think?
If baffle is bigger dipole cancelation occures in much lower frequencies?
If I use 15incher woofers the imaging would suffer because of less slim cabinet, isn't it?
So which 15" woofers are very good as an alternative choice to Tad 10".
Supravox 400-EXC
PHL 15"
TAD 15"
Any suggestions?
Supravox 400-EXC seems to me great! What do you think?
"still though, the more I think about it the more I like my most recent suggestion (the 2 Supravoxes in a T-line with the G1) (though not if you cranking the system past 105 db at 1 meter)."
Why not past 105db?
If in a 3 way?
I start to like the 215 GMF very much!!!!!!!!
Damn it I have changed 10^3 (1000) projects.
In addition I will audition some Atlantis Acoustique that use the Supravox 135 LB to see how Supravox sounds!
Why not past 105db?
If in a 3 way?
I start to like the 215 GMF very much!!!!!!!!
Damn it I have changed 10^3 (1000) projects.
In addition I will audition some Atlantis Acoustique that use the Supravox 135 LB to see how Supravox sounds!
that was stated more so that you won't hurt the ribbon with the 1st order series crossover at 1800Hz AND because you wouldn't achieve more than that realistically with the amp I mentioned (just 1 amp). As to wether it would hurt the ribbon crossed that low with that type of crossover with more than 1 watt of input - I don't know. (just a guess.)
The reason I mentioned the 1st order series is that a guy on the Hi-Eff. board mentioned that this type of crossover was astounding with the G1. (and 1st order series are wonderfull generally.)
Mantra Sound uses the 215 GMF..
yes, the larger the baffle the lower in freq. the level output will be on an open baffle.
for 15 incher's you have a broad range to choose from. As for which is best, well that depends on the loading scheme and the amplifier. The list you have is good, add to that Bert's BD-15 (http://www.diy-systems.com/), Beyma, Jbl, and Altec. Again play around with Box Plot to see how it would model for bass reflex designs. I haven't modeled any of them in Box Plot, (like I did a while back with the TAD).
http://www.sonicspot.com/boxplot/boxplot.html
Bear in mind though that the end result will be a LOT larger.
The reason I mentioned the 1st order series is that a guy on the Hi-Eff. board mentioned that this type of crossover was astounding with the G1. (and 1st order series are wonderfull generally.)
Mantra Sound uses the 215 GMF..
yes, the larger the baffle the lower in freq. the level output will be on an open baffle.
for 15 incher's you have a broad range to choose from. As for which is best, well that depends on the loading scheme and the amplifier. The list you have is good, add to that Bert's BD-15 (http://www.diy-systems.com/), Beyma, Jbl, and Altec. Again play around with Box Plot to see how it would model for bass reflex designs. I haven't modeled any of them in Box Plot, (like I did a while back with the TAD).
http://www.sonicspot.com/boxplot/boxplot.html
Bear in mind though that the end result will be a LOT larger.
Bipole wouldn't provide the neccesary eff. at the cross point for the G1 (it would however at around 300 Hz.) In otherwords you would have a depression in output between 300 Hz and the cross point at 1800 Hz with a bipole arrangement and these woofers.
Besides I'm not really sure what the appeal is with a bipole arrangement - I've heard several and have never been particularly impressed with this configuration (at least not above 200 Hz - below that however things can get better with a bipole).
Besides I'm not really sure what the appeal is with a bipole arrangement - I've heard several and have never been particularly impressed with this configuration (at least not above 200 Hz - below that however things can get better with a bipole).
Well thanks for the interest but I have changed my plans for now...since this thread... I will be builting this summer the ESL-3 kit from www.eraudio.com.au, and a TL subwoofer using the Eton 11-581 or Scanspeak 21W/8555 with a plate amplifier...My amp will be the plinius 9200. But we are far from this...Every progress will be available in the Electrostats/Panels forum...
Thanks
Regards Michael
Thanks
Regards Michael
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