OK...here goes: I've had an interest, in trying my hand at some builds; as I love the hobby, the idea of experimenting with various raw drivers...and my brother has some woodworking knowledge.
Problem is...I'm an amateur, and haven't honed my box-making skills just yet; plus...I'm sure there's more to making a decent-sounding speaker, than just a good box...and slapping random drivers into it.
Obviously, I know nothing of volume, acoustics, damping, cross-over design, etc. All that being said...I had a unique opportunity, that I could not pass on. My buddy and I own, and love PMC FACTs (I, 3s...and he 8s, soon to be 12s); and we found a pair of authentic cabinets, for sale...sans drivers, cross-over, and speaker terminals/back-plate.
So...for this build, luckily...we don't need to worry about cabinet volume, and damping; that's been done for us!! I actually thought, picking the drivers would be pretty easy too.
Being PMC fans, I know they design their drivers...to be manufactured by SEAS. To look at them...I thought these would be most closely suited https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...e-ca15rly-h1216-5.5-coated-paper-cone-woofer/ ; but a) these speakers were pre-drilled for 4 mount-screws, and these SEAS drivers have 6 (not that an issue like that couldn't be overcome), and b) these drivers have a surround that measures 146mm; whereas the specs, put the "actual" drivers at 140mm (and I've measured the cut-outs, as best I could...albeit crudely; and it seems to be 5.5" on the nose).
On the bright side...it does look like, any number of SEAS Prestige tweeter will fit https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/soft-dome-tweeters-seas/ ; and my buddy and I, are giving thought...to using the Madisound cross-over service https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/crossover-design/leap-crossover-designs-by-madisound/ (for the record...The Sound Org, offered to sell us "authentic" cross-over, and/or back-plates with terminals. $3800 for a pair of cross-over, and a cool $5 big-ones even, for the cross-over and back-plate
)
So what do you say guys; give me a hand with this? Many people warned me, maybe I should seek out...a forum, that was perhaps a bit more tolerant of a complete newbie. But I figured if I came hat in hand, admitted I don't know $h!t; prepared you for the fact that I will ask a ton of stupid questions, in order to understand why...and at least have some input, into my own build (rather than just follow advice blindly). I thought you might be up for the challenge?
So...where to even start; what's the first step??
Problem is...I'm an amateur, and haven't honed my box-making skills just yet; plus...I'm sure there's more to making a decent-sounding speaker, than just a good box...and slapping random drivers into it.
Obviously, I know nothing of volume, acoustics, damping, cross-over design, etc. All that being said...I had a unique opportunity, that I could not pass on. My buddy and I own, and love PMC FACTs (I, 3s...and he 8s, soon to be 12s); and we found a pair of authentic cabinets, for sale...sans drivers, cross-over, and speaker terminals/back-plate.
So...for this build, luckily...we don't need to worry about cabinet volume, and damping; that's been done for us!! I actually thought, picking the drivers would be pretty easy too.
Being PMC fans, I know they design their drivers...to be manufactured by SEAS. To look at them...I thought these would be most closely suited https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...e-ca15rly-h1216-5.5-coated-paper-cone-woofer/ ; but a) these speakers were pre-drilled for 4 mount-screws, and these SEAS drivers have 6 (not that an issue like that couldn't be overcome), and b) these drivers have a surround that measures 146mm; whereas the specs, put the "actual" drivers at 140mm (and I've measured the cut-outs, as best I could...albeit crudely; and it seems to be 5.5" on the nose).
On the bright side...it does look like, any number of SEAS Prestige tweeter will fit https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/soft-dome-tweeters-seas/ ; and my buddy and I, are giving thought...to using the Madisound cross-over service https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/crossover-design/leap-crossover-designs-by-madisound/ (for the record...The Sound Org, offered to sell us "authentic" cross-over, and/or back-plates with terminals. $3800 for a pair of cross-over, and a cool $5 big-ones even, for the cross-over and back-plate
)So what do you say guys; give me a hand with this? Many people warned me, maybe I should seek out...a forum, that was perhaps a bit more tolerant of a complete newbie. But I figured if I came hat in hand, admitted I don't know $h!t; prepared you for the fact that I will ask a ton of stupid questions, in order to understand why...and at least have some input, into my own build (rather than just follow advice blindly). I thought you might be up for the challenge?
So...where to even start; what's the first step??
The first step (IMHO) would have been to pick your drivers and then calculate the enclosure size.
You will now have to pick some drivers and calculate the enclosures needed for them and see which ones match.
I have done that for a replacement woofer for a friend...had to go to sealed but sounds OK.
You will now have to pick some drivers and calculate the enclosures needed for them and see which ones match.
I have done that for a replacement woofer for a friend...had to go to sealed but sounds OK.
What is the tweeter cutout? 98mm or 104mm? Has the look of a SEAS 22TAF/G.
H1283-06 22TAF/G
Those woofers look more like ScanSpeak W15/8434G-00 or Vifa PL14WJ on 149mm cutout:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-woofers/scanspeak-15w/8434g00-discovery-5.25-midwoofer/
Conceivably SB Acoustics:
SB Acoustics :: 5" SB15NRXC30-8
Plenty of kit ideas about:
Vifa PL14WJ-
SB Acoustics :: Elok
Should be a doddle really!
H1283-06 22TAF/G
Those woofers look more like ScanSpeak W15/8434G-00 or Vifa PL14WJ on 149mm cutout:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-woofers/scanspeak-15w/8434g00-discovery-5.25-midwoofer/
Conceivably SB Acoustics:
SB Acoustics :: 5" SB15NRXC30-8
Plenty of kit ideas about:
Vifa PL14WJ-
SB Acoustics :: Elok
Should be a doddle really!
What is the tweeter cutout? 98mm or 104mm? Has the look of a SEAS 22TAF/G.
H1283-06 22TAF/G
Those woofers look more like ScanSpeak W15/8434G-00 or Vifa PL14WJ on 149mm cutout:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...anspeak-15w/8434g00-discovery-5.25-midwoofer/
Conceivably SB Acoustics:
SB Acoustics :: 5" SB15NRXC30-8
Plenty of kit ideas about:
Vifa PL14WJ-
SB Acoustics :: Elok
Should be a doddle really!
Thanks for weighing-in! The tweeter, is definitely just under 4"; so must be ~98mm. So yes...I'll have my eye on this? https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/seas-soft-dome-tweeters/seas-prestige-h1280-06-22tff-tweeter/
I looked at the SB Acoustics drivers; and ScanSpeak (because you're right...they have the look, and 4 mounting-screws)...but they're surrounds are ~150mm.
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AW, mate! This is a flippin' nightmare!
You need drivers with a 140mm round chassis, and they really don't make 'em any more, since the famous Vifa P13WH polycone was discontinued.
You've got no margin to make the holes bigger either. The only current good drivers I could find were the Audax HM130Z0 Aerogel 13cm 5.25" woofer or the SPH-135/AD with a bit of carpentry, but that won't look very nice.
I don't think this looks very good at all, unless PMC will help you out. Where did the cabinets come from anyway? It's a current model, and I can't see PMC dumping them.
You need drivers with a 140mm round chassis, and they really don't make 'em any more, since the famous Vifa P13WH polycone was discontinued.
You've got no margin to make the holes bigger either. The only current good drivers I could find were the Audax HM130Z0 Aerogel 13cm 5.25" woofer or the SPH-135/AD with a bit of carpentry, but that won't look very nice.
I don't think this looks very good at all, unless PMC will help you out. Where did the cabinets come from anyway? It's a current model, and I can't see PMC dumping them.
Crossovers depend on the skill of the concept, IMO. There are good and bad sounding circuits which measure much the same. Some drivers play nicely together too, others don't.
But anyway, all is not lost. I have found a couple of midbasses that just about fit. AND some designs for them by VERY talented people. Which gives a point of departure.
138mm.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-woofers/zaph-audio-za14w08-5-aluminum-cone-mid/woofer/
This is by Michael Chua: "SWIFT" (ZAPH ZA14 + VIFA XT25) Monitors by AmpsLab
142mm.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-woofers/silver-flute-w14rc25-08-ohm-5-1/2-wool-cone/
This by Paul Carmody: https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy-orientexpress
But anyway, all is not lost. I have found a couple of midbasses that just about fit. AND some designs for them by VERY talented people. Which gives a point of departure.
138mm.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-woofers/zaph-audio-za14w08-5-aluminum-cone-mid/woofer/
This is by Michael Chua: "SWIFT" (ZAPH ZA14 + VIFA XT25) Monitors by AmpsLab
142mm.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-woofers/silver-flute-w14rc25-08-ohm-5-1/2-wool-cone/
This by Paul Carmody: https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy-orientexpress
FACT 3s
Crossovers depend on the skill of the concept, IMO. There are good and bad sounding circuits which measure much the same. Some drivers play nicely together too, others don't.
But anyway, all is not lost. I have found a couple of midbasses that just about fit. AND some designs for them by VERY talented people. Which gives a point of departure.
138mm.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...aph-audio-za14w08-5-aluminum-cone-mid/woofer/
This is by Michael Chua: "SWIFT" (ZAPH ZA14 + VIFA XT25) Monitors by AmpsLab
142mm.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-woofers/silver-flute-w14rc25-08-ohm-5-1/2-wool-cone/
This by Paul Carmody: https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy-orientexpress
Thanks; I saw the Zaph drivers, and noticed their 139mm diameter as well. Of course, I didn't want to pick drivers...just based on size.
I guess one of the questions, I was looking to have answered here; was...just how big a deal, is say ~6mm? (The SEAS drivers measure 146mm)
6mm extra is a VERY big deal if those stoopid PMC FACT.3 cabinets you bought won't fit anything bigger than 140mm! And I don't think they will.
YOU'VE dumped yourself in this spot. WE'RE just very kindly trying to rescue you.
Now a metal cone 5" bass is not my cup of tea at all.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-woofers/zaph-audio-za14w08-5-aluminum-cone-mid/woofer/
9kHz resonance to deal with, or it rings like a bell.
It so happens that Michael Chua is a member here at diyaudio. I like his 4th. order version of the Swift:
"SWIFT" (ZAPH ZA14 + VIFA XT25) Monitors by AmpsLab
If you start to get serious, we might help you out of this hole you have dug for yourself. I would quite fancy a SEAS 22TAF/G or Vifa XT25 tweeter to match here, but it's a long road. 15.5 cm baffle IIRC. I'd suggest you receive more than transmit from now on.
YOU'VE dumped yourself in this spot. WE'RE just very kindly trying to rescue you.
Now a metal cone 5" bass is not my cup of tea at all.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-woofers/zaph-audio-za14w08-5-aluminum-cone-mid/woofer/
9kHz resonance to deal with, or it rings like a bell.
It so happens that Michael Chua is a member here at diyaudio. I like his 4th. order version of the Swift:
"SWIFT" (ZAPH ZA14 + VIFA XT25) Monitors by AmpsLab
If you start to get serious, we might help you out of this hole you have dug for yourself. I would quite fancy a SEAS 22TAF/G or Vifa XT25 tweeter to match here, but it's a long road. 15.5 cm baffle IIRC. I'd suggest you receive more than transmit from now on.
Oh man, I have total cabinet envy here!
You are right, PMC drivers are just tweaked seas and SB acoustics, so that would definately be my starting point for a project like this. If you're lucky you'll be able to tune the transmission line with stuffing for the drivers you can find to fit.
From what I can gather, PMC started with off-the-shelf drivers and is slowly moving through the process of off-the-shelf to rebadged and eventually custom manufactured driver units, which I expect is what you're seeing in the FACT series.
Can I clarify, what is the baffle couter-sink cut out diameter and what is the actual hole size for the tweeter/woofer?
Should be fairly easy to DIY these....
Also, you're based in america yes?
You are right, PMC drivers are just tweaked seas and SB acoustics, so that would definately be my starting point for a project like this. If you're lucky you'll be able to tune the transmission line with stuffing for the drivers you can find to fit.
From what I can gather, PMC started with off-the-shelf drivers and is slowly moving through the process of off-the-shelf to rebadged and eventually custom manufactured driver units, which I expect is what you're seeing in the FACT series.
Can I clarify, what is the baffle couter-sink cut out diameter and what is the actual hole size for the tweeter/woofer?
Should be fairly easy to DIY these....
Also, you're based in america yes?
Wow; thank you. Finally, someone who can appreciate what I have here.
These are $9,000 speakers; and I picked up the cabinets for a less than a few hundred. And yet people are like "those cabinets are stupid"; and, to paraphrase..."why don't you throw them in the garbage, and just build something from scratch"...lol. (or worse yet...just not posting at all).
What makes anyone think I'm not serious??
Anyway nannoo; thanks for your enthusiasm. Yes, I am in the States.
Cool stuff, pity if yiu were in the UK I'd be trying to get the cabs off you!
So what are the cut out dimensions?
Have you checked what's available on the sb acoustics site? You can always mail them directly, they may be able to "help you out" with something that's "laying around" if you get my drift, send a nicely worded e-mail not mentioning PMC and asking if they can supply any drivers that fit
Without wishing to insult PMC, I'd be pretty sure you could could a better crossover for these anyway. Seas tweeters play very nicely with sb woofers anyway, listening to a seas-sb 2 way monitor now
So what are the cut out dimensions?
Have you checked what's available on the sb acoustics site? You can always mail them directly, they may be able to "help you out" with something that's "laying around" if you get my drift, send a nicely worded e-mail not mentioning PMC and asking if they can supply any drivers that fit
Without wishing to insult PMC, I'd be pretty sure you could could a better crossover for these anyway. Seas tweeters play very nicely with sb woofers anyway, listening to a seas-sb 2 way monitor now
Cool stuff, pity if yiu were in the UK I'd be trying to get the cabs off you!
So what are the cut out dimensions?
Have you checked what's available on the sb acoustics site? You can always mail them directly, they may be able to "help you out" with something that's "laying around" if you get my drift, send a nicely worded e-mail not mentioning PMC and asking if they can supply any drivers that fit
Without wishing to insult PMC, I'd be pretty sure you could could a better crossover for these anyway. Seas tweeters play very nicely with sb woofers anyway, listening to a seas-sb 2 way monitor now
IDK exactly nannoo. Remember, I'm very new to all this. What's the best way, to get a precise measurement of that kind of stuff?
Not really sure, how to go about such a thing; though I'm very open to doing some legwork. SEAS, SB Acoustics, ScanSpeak, VIFA; I'm open to any of the "major" brands, that might work.
I just can't see calling Sound Org; as previously mentioned...they wanted $5k for the cross-over and back-plate. God only knows, what they'd charge for drivers
Any other suggestions? What do I do...contact some of the drive manufactures directly??
I rebuilt a set a few years ago and couldn't find exact fitting drivers. I measured the volume and matched drivers to work. Replaced the XO with one of my own. Did it all for less than $100 and sold them for $500..
Built adaptor plates to fit the cabinets to the drivers..
Very nice; but I happen to own FACT 3s already...and the idea was kind of to replicate them, at a fraction of the price. Not design a totally different speaker.
But I also agree with nannoo above; there's no reason, the cross-over can't be "bettered"...with hi-end parts and caps, etc.
Could the tweeter be the Seas Crescendo or another Seas tweeter with Sonomex?
Here is a view of the midrange/midwoofer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiLWlzkplwg
Here is a view of the midrange/midwoofer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiLWlzkplwg
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There is one high-end (i.e. costly) solution to this one: Audiotechnology from Denmark !
They can do custom-built Drivers. With four of them you should even reach the point where a small Discount comes into Action.
Because they are custom built you can have the basket size and the TSP to your specs.
But be aware that this is a TML so check with one of the TML specialists here first (Planet10 ?).
Regards
Charles
They can do custom-built Drivers. With four of them you should even reach the point where a small Discount comes into Action.
Because they are custom built you can have the basket size and the TSP to your specs.
But be aware that this is a TML so check with one of the TML specialists here first (Planet10 ?).
Regards
Charles
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