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Old 20th January 2004, 03:56 PM   #91
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I do not think there is a great first project that is going t fit all needs. As with my experience the essence of DIY is to modify an idea to suit your own needs. Make a few mistakes and figure out how to solve them learn and carry on.
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Old 20th January 2004, 04:50 PM   #92
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Here is a link to a 2-way speaker designed by John K. that I built (successfully) as a first time project. I've been very pleased with the sound. It is not a kit, but the drivers are easily obtained and the xo parts are all laid out for you. All you need to be able to do is woodwork and solder. On this site is the layout for the type of "newbie-guide" people seem to want. All of the categories are not filled out, but there are some reviews to get a newbie started.

http://www.audiodiycentral.com/sd_250.shtml


Concerning requests for having EVERYTHING laid out are a bit much. If you don't know how to read x0 schematics, there are books at the library that break it down to an elementary level. I've also found some of the most popular speaker-building books there as well, along with soldering fundamentals. A newbie should do as much as possible on their own to educate themselves. It is not that difficult.

Also, for the first project, most of the simpler, less expensive projects will provide a valuable experience and a very satisfactory sound. There is no great need to sweat over finding THE kit to build, as there is more than one very good option.

Enjoy the process.

tim schaefer
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Old 20th January 2004, 05:02 PM   #93
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Concerning requests for having EVERYTHING laid out are a bit much. If you don't know how to read x0 schematics, there are books at the library that break it down to an elementary level. I've also found some of the most popular speaker-building books there as well, along with soldering fundamentals. A newbie should do as much as possible on their own to educate themselves. It is not that difficult.
Do I detect a little frustration? Maybe not, but I can relate to your statement. If someone has provided the enclosure volume/measurements, port size, XO type and values that should be enough information to complete the project, barring questions from unforseen circumstances. DIY is about trying a learning. Read a book. If you can't find the answers then ask the question. You get much better responses from those with experience. (I don't consider myself part of that group but sometimes I try to share).
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Old 20th January 2004, 05:21 PM   #94
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no, not frustration, just speaking my mind. As it turns out, the website containing the link that I posted has all of the things that people are asking for on this thread: kits, reviews, tutorials, etc.. The only thing lacking is MORE of all of the above, but so it goes when there are so many websites and a lack of centralization. It is still a good site.
It'd be too much work to centralize everything and who would want to do all of that for no pay? It's just easier to make a LINKS section on an individual site. Newbies just have to realize the nebulous nature of the DIY community and be willing to put in the time to peruse a good number of sites. There are a few link lists that are a good starting point, such as Decibel Dungen, JPO speakerbuilding linklist, and the audionova - hifi diy audio links list (mind-numbing, but impressive list).
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Old 20th January 2004, 11:06 PM   #95
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Hello Tims and Timn,

It might be possible there are others who have misinterpreted the point of this thread, so let me address these quotes:

Quote:
The intention of the project was to indentify a project for first time speaker builders.
Quote:
I do not think there is a great first project that is going t fit all needs.
It was not my intention to either identify a "great first project" or "one that would fit all needs."

Rather, I wanted to pick a simple project that _might_ be a good first time speaker project, but more.......[list=1][*]A two-way project that many of us would build, to act as an objective comparative reference to other (perhaps similar) speakers we have, or will build.[*]A speaker using drivers that might be changed by playing with enclosure design or swapped with others for an upgrade.[*]A design that might enjoy growing. By way of additional drivers, different configurations, and crossover tweaks.[/list=1]
This is why relatively inexpensive, but readily available drivers are being considered. The idea of two or even more speakers being built as prototypes, with varying x-overs could add up quickly.
I think sobaz, and especially netgeek have made very good suggestions regarding choices for directions for whole systems, and I had hoped that a driver as well regarded, and easy to work with as the P13, but with a lower F3, had been suggested (and rallied around,) but this hasn't happen....yet.

As an offshoot, a collection of links, or kits with documentation in the links section, or growth and development of the Wiki would be a good thing too. But I hope this clarification brings you and others back with more input and energy.

BTW Timn, after looking over the graphs at James Melhuish's Pioneer B20/Piezo project, I wonder how they compare to your TB projects?
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Old 21st January 2004, 04:55 AM   #96
bradley is offline bradley  United States
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It'd be too much work to centralize everything and who would want to do all of that for no pay? It's just easier to make a LINKS section on an individual site.[QUOTE]

I don't understand. I've reread this entire thread and there seems to be a separate, otherwise ignored, idea woven into this discussion that concerns itself with the speaker wikipedia. Why wouldn't this be a natural location for sharing information on kits and projects? Is it the location? The neighborhood? Maybe the neon is not bright enough? Do we need cheerleaders in g-strings?
But I rant.
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Old 21st January 2004, 11:32 AM   #97
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
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Quote:
Originally posted by Timn8ter

If someone has provided the enclosure volume/measurements, port size, XO type and values that should be enough information to complete the project, barring questions from unforseen circumstances. DIY is about trying a learning. Read a book. If you can't find the answers then ask the question
That's what I tried to do with Post #8, give the newbie the values, which is the hard part, a couple of pics and they can research the rest.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bradley
Quote:
bradley, have a look at post #36......planet10 showed me how to do a quote.

I still think the D27 + P13 combo would still make the best newbie reference speaker as it would be in the spirit of what x.onasis has in mind......a common speaker that newbies can compare modifications and more ambitious projects. It appears in many a thread as the best 2-way start for a newbie (quoting planet10) and I have heard this combo. Sure it's bass shy, so is the B&WDM303 which was the EISA speaker of the year (couple of years back). This speaker is about detail and imaging and if you build a follow up project you can use this as a datum.

Links in the Wiki to other projects would be good. I've got to find out if you can post pics directly into the Wiki or has to be a link.
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Old 21st January 2004, 12:34 PM   #98
phs is offline phs  Australia
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x.onassis:
Vb=5.2 litres plus 0.3 litres for driver and port, internal volume 5.5 litres, Fb=73.7 Hz, F3=78.8 Hz

sobazz:
Just did some modeling. Not with the 13cm Vifa PL driver but a 11cm. With a box volume of 7L,
an Fb of 59hz and 17.7cm long 4.7cm^2 port you will get an F3 at around 53hz.
I believe the 2.5L more is worth a lot.

Esquire: Volume: 5.3 liters, Vent: 1.25 inch diameter 1.625 inches long (75 Hz), F3: 75 Hz,
Alignment: SC4 (better transient stability than QB3).

rabbitz:
Sure it's bass shy, so is the B&WDM303 which was the EISA speaker of the year
(couple of years back). This speaker is about detail and imaging.

/quotes


there has been a niggling thought at the back of my mind for a few days now... enclosure size.

fs of the P17 is 37Hz, included with the data sheet are some enclosure sizes / roll off graphs ranging from 10lt, 15lt, 22lt and 30lt.

are we shortchanging ourlseves by placing this driver in a 5lt enclosure?

sobazz has mentioned this point with a 7lt volume, still quite far off the 10 - 30lt.

surely we can squeeze a little bit more out of the driver? perhaps
i am missing something here; why the small volume?
transients? optimally flat response?

*early awaits thoughts*

i clearly remember a friends floorstanding P17/D25 setup with a bottom rear port, no internal divisions. i forgot to ask him about the size, but it was definately large. 5.6uf cap only, sounded amazing.
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Old 21st January 2004, 02:22 PM   #99
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Originally posted by x. onasis

<It might be possible there are others who have misinterpreted <the point of this thread,

When these threads get a little long, I tend to get lost and lose sight of the original point. I was addressing comments that had come up somewhere during the thread. I should be more focused.

Concerning whether the P17 was put in an undersized box at 5L I cannot directly comment on since it is a ported design and I put my P17WJ-00-08 in a sealed box. I can say this, however. The recommended volume (sealed) for my speaker was around 10L and after testing the driver parameters, I opted for a 16L box, which would give me the option of a lower Qtc. Since I had not built a speaker before and did not know whether I'd like a Qtc > or < say 0.9, the larger box gave me the option to experiment with volume. You can always fill up a box that is too large. I know that you stuff a small box to increase the apparent volume, but this can only go so far. Anyway, I was amazed at how much of a difference was made with different amounts/types of stuffing. On this note, I recommend to the newbie to built an oversized box.

tim s
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Old 22nd January 2004, 12:13 PM   #100
rabbitz is offline rabbitz  Australia
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Quote:
Originally posted by phs

fs of the P17 is 37Hz, included with the data sheet are some enclosure sizes / roll off graphs ranging from 10lt, 15lt, 22lt and 30lt.

are we shortchanging ourlseves by placing this driver in a 5lt enclosure?
Hi phs

For all these designs we were talking about the 5" P13WH-00-008 which is the reason for the small volume.

For the P17WJ-00-08 for a vented design 18-22 litres would be the go.

Sorry about any confusion.
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