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Old 26th July 2013, 07:44 PM   #31
Toaster is offline Toaster  United Kingdom
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I didn't run the HM100s as low as that- excursion looks rather limited- and I'd be surprised if the 10F didn't go at least as loud, if not louder, than the HM100 in practice. Measurements I've seen suggest the 10F's power handling is good, but 300Hz seems a sensible limit at the bottom end. It is also is fairly sensitive with the 4 Ohm version about the same as the L26ROY. That said, although it probably measures a bit off the pace these days, I do really like the HM100ZO and it is 3db or so more sensitive than the 10F if that's a useful thing in context. Not that BG have got me on commission or anything, but the 8S, or any of the Neo planars, do fine in sealed subenclosures, not just dipoles. Just sayin'...
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Old 26th July 2013, 07:50 PM   #32
Face is offline Face  United States
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You're forgetting to subtract sensitivity for baffle step. When baffle step is considered, either 10F is more efficient than the L26ROY.
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Old 26th July 2013, 08:25 PM   #33
Kev06 is offline Kev06  England
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Hmm, yes - thanks face & toaster. 300Hz is just a ball-park aim really, so I could go higher to play safe; the same would possibly also help my concerns about the HM100Z0's high Fs.

I've not got as far as the cabinet yet but it is likely to be housing at least a 10" or perhaps 12" woofer, which would be forward facing if I cross over as high as intended, so 12"/13" would be about bang on. Unfortunately though, I've just been doing some SPL measurements and the 10F isn't going to be up to it without doubling them up - and/or unless i greatly exceed their power rating which I believe is only 15w nominal? Though I can't claim to understand baffle step enough to say for sure; without that I'm getting 108dB at 150w for the ROY (my amp's power) and less than 100dB for the 10F at its max 15w

Thanks
kev

Last edited by Kev06; 26th July 2013 at 08:40 PM.
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Old 26th July 2013, 08:39 PM   #34
Face is offline Face  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev06 View Post
Unfortunately though, I've just been doing some SPL measurements and the 10F isn't going to be up to it without doubling them up - and/or unless i greatly exceed their power rating which I believe is only 15w nominal?

Thanks
kev
The 15W is a different animal and not as well refined. I haven't simmed this yet, but it is more efficient: The Madisound Speaker Store
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Old 26th July 2013, 08:44 PM   #35
Kev06 is offline Kev06  England
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I've been doing some testing with an SPL meter. It looks like my normal serious listening level is largely in agreement with the THX/studio level, at around 85dB (or so) at my ears. Although the meter says that in my room I need an extra 3db@1m to make up for the distance, and the THX reference level also suggests a further 20dB of headroom, so that would be around 108dB per speaker. I can't really assume the music would always be equally distributed across frequency but probably the drivers would share most loud stuff to a noticeable degree, so they could perhaps each be a couple of dB less - say around 106dB@1m each.

Without exceeding their rated power (if I can trust the specs), the Audax HM100Z0 will reach over 109dB so (aside from its high fs) no probs there at all. The Audax HM130C0 and the SEAS MCA12RC are both about 105dB so 'just about' enough.

Sadly the Scanseek 10F is about 6dB below my target, which is perhaps too much of a short-fall. Their slightly larger 5.25" 15W/8434G00 does reach 105dB though, so thats a possibility - they don't seem to say how off axis their chart lines are, but assuming something normal then it'd perhaps be acceptable if I toed them in. One of their 4" illuminators (the 12MU/4731T00) will get to 108dB and has a very nice flat looking response, but its extremely expensive... Maybe I'm wrong to be expecting the mid to be cheaper than the bass though; it could perhaps be said that its the most important range and is no less stretched in range..

At least thats how it seems to me; its entirely possible that I've messed up somewhere though..

Cheers
Kev
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Old 26th July 2013, 08:46 PM   #36
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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just to make sure you know the 'alternative'..... a proven and known design

it might get very difficult if you have no experience or access to measurement gear

DIY Loudspeakers
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Old 26th July 2013, 08:48 PM   #37
Kev06 is offline Kev06  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Face View Post
The 15W is a different animal and not as well refined. I haven't simmed this yet, but it is more efficient: The Madisound Speaker Store
maybe I've got the wromg model then; that link to the 15m does indeed look very different. I'll have to look more carefully - though ultimately it'll be influenced by what I can get here I suppose.

Thanks
Kev
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Old 26th July 2013, 08:52 PM   #38
Kev06 is offline Kev06  England
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Tinitus, thanks for the link - a very interesting looking site; I'll have to spend some time looking it over.

Cheers
Kev
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Old 26th July 2013, 11:28 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Greebster View Post
That all encompassing distortion peak @600Hz is something I'd be looking into, otherwise nothing else glaring at me. Well would like to see less 3rd between 1-2k, but doubt it would be detrimental to the listening experience.
Thanks Greebster, I'll PM to not take the thread off topic

Tony.
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Old 27th July 2013, 08:27 AM   #40
Kev06 is offline Kev06  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Face View Post
The 15W is a different animal and not as well refined. I haven't simmed this yet, but it is more efficient: The Madisound Speaker Store
Its a pity its not to the same standard; it'll reach a similar SPL to the HM100Z0 (i.e. more than I need) and has a much lower Fs; pretty cheap too.

I think I'm probably going to compromise on the diameter to get the sort of SPL vs quality vs price I was wanting, maybe I could consider crossing-over slightly lower to the tweeter - which isn't chosen yet.

So, I've been looking at the other drivers I can get; the Audax HM130Z0 5.25" looks most interesting - I hadn't realised the 'Z0' aerogel version is so different to the 'C0' carbon-fibre one that I'd short listed. The HM130Z0 easily gets me the SPL I want, has a low enough Fs and has at least a reasonable off axis performance for a 5.25". It seems to have a number of fans too, so I'm quite interested in this one - any thoughts?

Cheers
Kev
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