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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 6th June 2013, 03:23 PM   #201
Juhazi is online now Juhazi  Finland
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Juhazi ER18DXT dispersion measurements
Attached Images
File Type: png er18dxt in 0 15 30 45 60 90¤ 100ms 13.png (74.4 KB, 375 views)
File Type: png er18dxt in 0 15 30 45 60 90¤ 20ms 112.png (113.0 KB, 369 views)
File Type: png er18dxt in 0 90 135 180¤ 20ms 13.png (67.5 KB, 360 views)
File Type: png er18dxt in 0¤ spl phase 9ms.png (74.2 KB, 354 views)
File Type: png er18dxt in 0¤ dg 112 9ms.png (89.4 KB, 348 views)
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Old 6th June 2013, 04:02 PM   #202
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I think you could sell (or publish?) this as a kit. Many Gradient fans might be interested in this!
Great work.
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Old 6th June 2013, 05:02 PM   #203
Juhazi is online now Juhazi  Finland
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My UMIK-1 is defective

I tested it with different cables, ports and computers. Ditto. I must send a message about this to miniDSP folks. However I believe that my measurements are ok.

The problems is in the signal processor that is built-in. The level of peaks remains constant regardless of level of "real" noise/sound.
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File Type: png umik-1 asus noise vs others.png (192.6 KB, 32 views)
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient

Last edited by Juhazi; 6th June 2013 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 6th June 2013, 07:25 PM   #204
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I tamed the peak in bass response, as an excercise because I'm still protoing. Irregularities at 100 to 800 are not so critical because the are not constant at different positions. At least taming them is more complicated, it can't be done with dsp.

By the way - one reason for solid bass might be the high damping factor of a classD amplifier driving the unit without any huge coil between them!
Attached Images
File Type: png AINOgice peak 52 eq.png (217.0 KB, 37 views)
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient

Last edited by Juhazi; 6th June 2013 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 15th June 2013, 12:24 PM   #205
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I am still waiting to get bass boxes back from the painter. The weather has bee too windy for outdoor measurements. I've done seome work to get bass integrated to lower mid and this seems to be endless endeavour... I did some major changes to PEQ and xo which resulted in better off-axis behaviour. Indoor mesurements are a pain in the *** below 1kHz because of reflections and difficulty of using short IR time.

My neighbour, the Grammy winner, pianist Marian Petrescu promised to come over and listen to his own recording! I have listened a lot of piano music during this project and I really love the performance of AINO. It is so nice to get a second opinion from the master himself!

AINO gradient ice v6 indoor measurements

xos 150Hz LR4, 550Hz LR2 and 3100Hz LR4
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient

Last edited by Juhazi; 15th June 2013 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 15th June 2013, 02:39 PM   #206
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I measured raw responses of the Beyma 12MWNd and Vife NE95 pair, installed in the pole of AINO, on top of the proto bass box. The dip in Beyma's response at 150Hz is floor reflection.

The dipole null of Beyma is 1,2kHz and it was too close to the xo previously. Vifa pair can easily go lower. I moved xo from around 1000Hz to ~580Hz in v6
Attached Images
File Type: png beyma vifa raw 9 3ms 0¤.png (68.6 KB, 36 views)
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient

Last edited by Juhazi; 15th June 2013 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 24th June 2013, 08:04 PM   #207
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It was a nice and quiet evening - I did some adjustments and ended with v61.

AINOgradient ice v61 highlights from the outdoor measurement session (without W)
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Old 25th June 2013, 08:40 AM   #208
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I am on a summer vacation and I had some spare time to do more measurments of MTM vs MT arrangement, using my AINOgradient ice as a test mule. Sorry, I had to use low level.

CharlieLaub is a honored person among diyers. He critisized using a MTM arrangement in dipoles. I disagree and tried my best to find out measurements/data to give light to the topic. I must say that a MTM is better in my AINOgradient in every respect, accodring these measurements. Theory and Charlie's experience may be different.

I measured inside, speaker in the middle of the room, mic at 150cm distance, at tweeter height (when stated low at lower mid's height).

First horizontal directivity with 9 and 200ms IR window
- MTM is better
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Old 25th June 2013, 08:46 AM   #209
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Reflections, spectral decay
- look close at range 1 to 3 kHz
- not a big difference but mtm looks better to me (less red areas in short time)
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Old 25th June 2013, 09:06 AM   #210
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Vertical variations - comb filtering?

I took measurement at tweeter height and at lower mid's height (low) - 95mm lower. Distance from mids' center to center is 190mm (7½")

Only some comparisons shown here.
- to me it looks like a single mid has more variations both on-level and of-level vertically. I can see some comb filtering though for MTM arrangement measured at lower mid's height.

Finally - I chose MTM because I was afraid that I would stress a single 3" mid driver too much with the extensive shelving for dipole loss at the low end, distortion wise (LR2). I don't trust my measuring talent enough to do and show reliable distortion measurements - my environment is too noisy for that. A sigle M is used in most of latest dipoles by guys that used double mids earlier (LX521, NoO NoteII) One reason that made this possible is to change from a 3-way to 4-way. The main reason for a 4-way is to extend dipole function higher by a more narrow baffle (and a smaller diameter driver)
Attached Images
File Type: png ainogice v61 in 0¤ hm vs low 9ms nosmo-horz.png (203.8 KB, 22 views)
File Type: png ainogice v61 in 0¤ vs shm 9ms 16.png (38.4 KB, 29 views)
File Type: png ainogice mtm measures.png (686.9 KB, 107 views)
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