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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 26th March 2013, 06:37 PM   #101
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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My components are arriving!

I already have the high-mids and mono amplifiers. The minidsp, stereoamps and rest of drivers have landed in Finland. The Easter holidays are coming and we get all our children at home and some friends too - there will be minimal time and space for my hobby now. But right after that!!!

I have been considering the amp setup. I have 1 mono 170W and two 2x50W amps per side. Which drivers soak most power? The music has most of power at 50 - 2500Hz (consistently at 150-1000Hz). The sensitivity of Beyma 12" is good but it needs eq when used 200-1000Hz as a dipole. The L26ROY needs some eq too in a closed box - or a port (that I don't want). My listening levels are moderate, peaks never above 100dB, seldom even 93dBA

Well, I can easily plug the RCA-wires differently to amps because the minidsp takes care of eq and level. And I can get some more powerful icepower amps easily...

I have been thinking of putting the amps inside the bass boxes in the final AINOs, but test will be run "outboard"
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Old 28th March 2013, 09:30 AM   #102
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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Yesterday I installed a test bed for the high-mids and a tweeter in MTM. I expect to get the ninidsp and U-MIK today...

John Reekie has done a wonderful writeup of how to set up a 4-way system using minidsp here at hifizine.com. His speaker had a dipole woofer, I am going monopole up to 150-200Hz whre room modes deteriorate soundwaves and localization anyway (at my listening distance)

I'll make a proto box/setup for AINO in a few days and I can start making measurements after Easter. I plan to make a turntable between W and MMTM sections to help me getting off-axis measurements. Jon Marsh has used 30¤ off-axis measurements as major guideline when setting up his Isiris, which is a conventional monopole. I have followed his projects for many years and I have high respect for his achievements.
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient
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Old 1st April 2013, 07:48 PM   #103
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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The test mule version of AINO has been constructed!

The box is too big but I had some 50cm sheets left - 76 liters. The final version will be roughly 40 L. The final version will also have a more tighty set met-section, also flush-mounted and even more chamfered holes

The turntable holds the Beyma 12" and tweeters. I marked 15, 30, 45, 60 and 90¤ angles to it. The wiring will be done tonight too.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg aino test box 76L.jpg (504.2 KB, 431 views)
File Type: jpg aino test mule.jpg (279.0 KB, 425 views)
File Type: jpg aino test turntable.jpg (157.8 KB, 418 views)
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient
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Old 2nd April 2013, 07:51 AM   #104
lolo is offline lolo  France
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you seem a bit lonely here my friend! Great work, looking forward to the measurements. :-)
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Old 2nd April 2013, 11:25 AM   #105
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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Thank You for the encouragement, lolo!

I have listened to the raw drivers. The SEAS L26 is an amazing thing! It plays very high and has a very solid bass in my downfiring box, without any eq. The Beyma sounds good too and the dipole effect sounds stronger than L26 when held and twisted around in my hands!

I ordered a pair of B&O 125ASX modules yesterday. They deliver 2x125W which sould be enough for SEAS and Beyma. This way there will be two B&O modules per box.
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient

Last edited by Juhazi; 2nd April 2013 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 2nd April 2013, 07:11 PM   #106
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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My first measurements!

I used a Microsoft LifeCam 3000HD usb-camera's microphone! It is rather good actually! The environment is not good, this was just a sanity check!! REW sweeps 256 or 512kb, levels adjusted a little between nearfield and 80cm!

Seems to match my simulations quite well. The HM baffle should be even narrower, as close to 100mm as I can.

L26 measures like magic! No smoothing

12MWNd shows cavity resonance at 2kHz and the dipole response. No smoothing

NE95 pair is ok, dipole response ok. Nearfield is from only one driver and 1/12 smoothing was used on all these graphs

CD3.5H shows lots of resonances/reflections/diffractions, 50ms gate, no smoothing. A 6.8uF serial capacitor was used for protection.

I can sum this as: It's easy to cross between W, LM and HM. Hm to T must be steep LR4 or LR6
Attached Images
File Type: png aino l26 raw in box76l 150ms.png (109.7 KB, 349 views)
File Type: png 12mwnd raw 150ms.png (89.5 KB, 318 views)
File Type: png ne95 raw 150ms.png (88.3 KB, 91 views)
File Type: png cd3.5 6.8uf 50ms.png (95.7 KB, 80 views)
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient

Last edited by Juhazi; 2nd April 2013 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 2nd April 2013, 07:50 PM   #107
lolo is offline lolo  France
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Hi Juha,

Well done! I do think though that the cost of a cheap behringer calibrated microphone would be worth it. The Aino deserves it!^^

Hey, where is everybody gone BTW? Ah.............. still fighting on directivity or not directivity.... :-)

Last edited by lolo; 2nd April 2013 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 3rd April 2013, 04:59 AM   #108
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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I have a calibrated U-MIK from minidsp coming to me, but obviously the Easter holidays have made a delay to the delivery. They were cleared at the Finnish customs a week ago!

The raggedness in the curves comes mainly from the room. We must look at the "big picture" now. I think I will do outdoor ("anechoid") mesurements too when the weather and songbirds allows that
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AES Associate Member / My DIY speaker history: -74 Philips 3-way, -82 Hifi 85B, -07 Zaph L18, XLS10+PR/Hypex, -08 CSS125FR, -08 Hifitalo AW-7, -08 TangBand FR, -09 MarkK ER18DXT, -13 PPSL470, -13 AINOgradient

Last edited by Juhazi; 3rd April 2013 at 05:02 AM.
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Old 3rd April 2013, 05:35 AM   #109
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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By the way I'm wondering if AINO will have too much directivity to my taste!?

But the set is 5.1 which means that I can utilize the strong directivity of AINOs when listening to stereo and switch on 5.1 ProLogicIIMusic for background music and movies!
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Old 3rd April 2013, 05:53 AM   #110
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Very nice!
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