Well the Behringer crossover will allow you to high-pass your RAAL + Mid combo.
As for the crossover between the RAAL and Mid - that largely depends on the response of each driver on the baffle for your design. Still, you *could* eq. the response after the fact, but at best it will be "hit and miss".
You would be (MUCH) better off just going fully active with the Behringer (and with your skill level from what it appears).
The end-result should be obtainable and probably just better overall anyway.
-Just my opinion..
As for the RAAL's crossover (generically - i.e. infinite baffle) - I'd look to a 3rd or 4th order network with a -3 db point (for better overlap at crossover). i.e. "Butterworth" filter. Somewhere between 2.2 and 3.2 kHz. (..the lower it is the greater need for a higher order filter.)
Note that with a full active system (particularly one with digital eq.), driver sensitivity matching becomes much less of an issue - opening up your options a LOT.
From there it's more a matter of:
How large a baffle? How do you want to "load" it (what type of box/open baffle)? How much clean spl do you want/need? (..oh, and this presumes that you have good output from your amplifiers.)
yea my skill level definately says active but too much issue i have currently 3 way active system ....too much of wire and hassles...
reason for combining Raal and SS is to get a Ncore and pump both of them from these two...cant have 5 Ncore sitting (not possible financially for me yet)....
i agree it could be hit or miss....baffle i am thinking to two fo these with back open....and in between fill with wool or acoustic material....kinda make it monopole...
Knock-Down MDF 0.56 ft³ Bookshelf Cabinet 300-7064
i am just wondering is the crossover between SS and Raal is such a big deal...
V
It *can* be a big deal.
If you don't go that loud and you crossover low with a steep filter, say a Cauer/Elliptical filter around 1.4 Khz then you should be fine.
try the baffle out on the Edge:
Home of the Edge
..my guess is that the eq. required will be "ugly".
With an Elliptical around 1.4-1.6 kHz and a small baffle my recommendation would be two 18Sound 6ND430-16 in an MTM configuration. (..when wired in parallel you'll net another 6db you can use to compensate for pressure loss due to the small baffle.) It's also a better midrange driver than the Scan.. (plus it's x2)
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Not gong loud at all...live in apt complex and listen music later in night mostly when it is quiet so will not be loud at all.
V
Then look to my added-on recomendation then.
Zaph has the 18 sound driver measured on his website.
Zaph|Audio
His opinion of the driver:
"Excellent performing 16 ohm pro midwoofer. Smooth response and an extremely clean midrange. Very usable T/S parameters and excursion though somewhat limited bass extension for what is meant for woofer service. Very sensitive. It would make a fine midrange also. Lightweight neo magnet assembly with cooling fins. A couple of these paired up for an MTM and used with a subwoofer would make a reference level system. High value for this level of performance. Tested August 2008."
Then look to my added-on recomendation then.
Zaph has the 18 sound driver measured on his website.
Zaph|Audio
His opinion of the driver:
"Excellent performing 16 ohm pro midwoofer. Smooth response and an extremely clean midrange. Very usable T/S parameters and excursion though somewhat limited bass extension for what is meant for woofer service. Very sensitive. It would make a fine midrange also. Lightweight neo magnet assembly with cooling fins. A couple of these paired up for an MTM and used with a subwoofer would make a reference level system. High value for this level of performance. Tested August 2008."
I wish i can ...i am really tight on budget now.......i guess i have to dig in myslf and see how the driver respond to xo points...
Tight budget.. that's not for passive crossovers then.
..well, unless you don't mind really cheap parts.
A good passive crossover often costs more than the entire loudspeaker.
Tight budget.. that's not for passive crossovers then.
..well, unless you don't mind really cheap parts.
A good passive crossover often costs more than the entire loudspeaker.
I am so ***d
It's a learning process..
i understand....that is ok...little help on the way is all we need...lets see how this experiment goes...currently trying to understand frd and zma file and see if i can get them and try some decent 1 or 2nd order XO and see any results...
this wasnt cake walk i expected but no sight in so many days is something i didnt expected either...
V
I guess ScottG is right. without a measurement system, a mic and various different passive parts to tune your crossover you will run into troubles. right now i have three shoeboxes full of different caps, coils and resistors to test my networks.
so activ would be easier for you. but keep in mind that you correct the baffle step with the behringer x-over, otherwise it will make the sound a bit ....aggressiv.. *g but you should measure here, too.
so maybe you should stick with a already finished design from somebody else. so you save lot`s of money. in case you don´t have the possibillities to measure and tweak. or maybe you can ask somebodey really nice to share his design with you. -if he uses the same midrangedriver as you- (6moons page)
or you may get away with this design:
Solen Electronique Inc.
they use the 8ohm version of your driver and use them in parallel mode. that makes something like your 4ohm driver. you may have to correct the pad for the ribbon. i would take a shot at that design. so call solen. ;-)
i could send you my network, but i guess it won`t help you. because it`s for different drivers. if you would get a pair of excel w22s (mag or nextel), Ì would be happy to help.
but as scott said,..it`s a learning process.
but if you won`t go that loud you will be fine with 1600hz x-over frequency.
good luck.
so activ would be easier for you. but keep in mind that you correct the baffle step with the behringer x-over, otherwise it will make the sound a bit ....aggressiv.. *g but you should measure here, too.
so maybe you should stick with a already finished design from somebody else. so you save lot`s of money. in case you don´t have the possibillities to measure and tweak. or maybe you can ask somebodey really nice to share his design with you. -if he uses the same midrangedriver as you- (6moons page)
or you may get away with this design:
Solen Electronique Inc.
they use the 8ohm version of your driver and use them in parallel mode. that makes something like your 4ohm driver. you may have to correct the pad for the ribbon. i would take a shot at that design. so call solen. ;-)
i could send you my network, but i guess it won`t help you. because it`s for different drivers. if you would get a pair of excel w22s (mag or nextel), Ì would be happy to help.
but as scott said,..it`s a learning process.
but if you won`t go that loud you will be fine with 1600hz x-over frequency.
good luck.
I guess ScottG is right. without a measurement system, a mic and various different passive parts to tune your crossover you will run into troubles. right now i have three shoeboxes full of different caps, coils and resistors to test my networks.
so activ would be easier for you. but keep in mind that you correct the baffle step with the behringer x-over, otherwise it will make the sound a bit ....aggressiv.. *g but you should measure here, too.
so maybe you should stick with a already finished design from somebody else. so you save lot`s of money. in case you don´t have the possibillities to measure and tweak. or maybe you can ask somebodey really nice to share his design with you. -if he uses the same midrangedriver as you- (6moons page)
or you may get away with this design:
Solen Electronique Inc.
they use the 8ohm version of your driver and use them in parallel mode. that makes something like your 4ohm driver. you may have to correct the pad for the ribbon. i would take a shot at that design. so call solen. ;-)
i could send you my network, but i guess it won`t help you. because it`s for different drivers. if you would get a pair of excel w22s (mag or nextel), Ì would be happy to help.
but as scott said,..it`s a learning process.
but if you won`t go that loud you will be fine with 1600hz x-over frequency.
good luck.
Thanks bud...i am already scanning
Scanspeak 18w/4531g
and trying to get frd and zma files and see how it playes out...
V
Hi
Have you seen Lukas Fikus' Lampizator P24? They also use the RAAL ribbons. That might just be a viable alternative. Just a thought.
Enjoy,
Deon
Have you seen Lukas Fikus' Lampizator P24? They also use the RAAL ribbons. That might just be a viable alternative. Just a thought.
Enjoy,
Deon
Close is good enough then zero for me right now...
about mic yes or else u will kill me if i dont buy that
BTW: i talked to solen guys they already have made the XO using same drivers...only thing they use two SS 18w 8ohm driver in parallel to get a effective SS 18w 4ohm what i already have and phase and other diagrams looks perfect...i might need to change some attenuation on tweeter...this is so far the best bet for me...
SS crossed at 1500 and Raal Crossed at 2000
http://www.solen.ca/pdf/kits/ananyakit.pdf
Any inputs again...
V
talked to solen people and they say this XO will work perfect with the driver i have....as they have two 8516 in parallel effective resistance is 4 ohm for them
I am close to ordering all parts from parts-express only thing not sure about tweeter attenuator....
i hope even i get decent XO as shown in graph i be happy
I am close to ordering all parts from parts-express only thing not sure about tweeter attenuator....
i hope even i get decent XO as shown in graph i be happy
Attachments
Hello,
I just finished a design with the Raal 140-15D and an accuton mid.
The Raal is crossed at 3K with a third order electrical and the accuton 2nd order electrical.
Why ?
Because when I looked at the harmonic distortion of both drivers 3k was perfect:
- high enough so that the distortions of the Raal below 2k are enough suppressed.
- low enough so that the distortions of the Accuton above 5k are enough suppressed.
- The third order electrical on the Raal and 2nd order electrical on the accuton are with the acoustical rolloff of the drivers translated in both 4th order acoustic slopes with perfect phase integration.
That's all what I needed
I just finished a design with the Raal 140-15D and an accuton mid.
The Raal is crossed at 3K with a third order electrical and the accuton 2nd order electrical.
Why ?
Because when I looked at the harmonic distortion of both drivers 3k was perfect:
- high enough so that the distortions of the Raal below 2k are enough suppressed.
- low enough so that the distortions of the Accuton above 5k are enough suppressed.
- The third order electrical on the Raal and 2nd order electrical on the accuton are with the acoustical rolloff of the drivers translated in both 4th order acoustic slopes with perfect phase integration.
That's all what I needed
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