So i got my RAAL 140-15D and have been in search for the mid that can keep up with it...and after reading various commercial and DIY i have come up and got some decent deal on the scanspeak 18w
The Madisound Speaker Store
crossed around 2.5k-3k anywhere the sweet point is..
i did some search and i might get away with something as simple as a single cap and padding resistor for the RAAL. That will get me a second order HP filter and likely a LR2 acoustic response
problem is The 18W will likely be acoustically behind the RAAL
any suggestions how to proceed with
The Madisound Speaker Store
crossed around 2.5k-3k anywhere the sweet point is..
i did some search and i might get away with something as simple as a single cap and padding resistor for the RAAL. That will get me a second order HP filter and likely a LR2 acoustic response
problem is The 18W will likely be acoustically behind the RAAL
any suggestions how to proceed with
That's not a mid..
It's a midbass driver.
Also, it's diameter is rather large - complicating matters greatly with crossover integration.
-is "got some" mean that it's purchased already?
If so then I guess read the Bogdan Catalina review here (..diy design turned commercial):
6moons audio reviews: Bogdan Audio Creations Catalina
It's a midbass driver.
Also, it's diameter is rather large - complicating matters greatly with crossover integration.
-is "got some" mean that it's purchased already?
If so then I guess read the Bogdan Catalina review here (..diy design turned commercial):
6moons audio reviews: Bogdan Audio Creations Catalina
Hi guys,
See RAAL picture here 7, 10, (and RAAL amp) 11, 12, 13 (JG Audio / Lesnikov Acoustics)
ViciAudio: Eventos Audio
See RAAL picture here 7, 10, (and RAAL amp) 11, 12, 13 (JG Audio / Lesnikov Acoustics)
ViciAudio: Eventos Audio
Yes sir...i am using a AE IB15 from 200Hz down to 20 in seprate Hamps...
so yes
can i use this combonation or not or should i sell it?
V
The SS will beam at 3k, meanwhile the RAAL will have very wide dispersion at that frequency. But a smaller mid may have trouble playing down to 200hz in an open baffle. You could add a SS 10F to the mix between the 18W and RAAL.
Don't get your hopes up about a simple LR2 with the RAAL. Unless you cross even higher than 3K, you'll have plenty of distortion. Check PE's TT, R-Carpenter tested a pair of my RAALs and the data there will back up what i've stated.
Don't get your hopes up about a simple LR2 with the RAAL. Unless you cross even higher than 3K, you'll have plenty of distortion. Check PE's TT, R-Carpenter tested a pair of my RAALs and the data there will back up what i've stated.
You *can* use it.. but I wouldn't recommend it.
As for selling the Scan's - they are nice drivers. IF you have another project in mind that could make better use of them then consider holding onto them.
Onto a midrange driver then..
Look for a smaller diameter driver..
It really depends on how you load the driver and cross-over to the AE driver.. IF you don't use any highpass at all to filter the lower end response of the mid then you'll probably need more linear excursion capability (..for a given diameter). Smaller diameter - more linear excursion.
I'd say no larger than 5 1/2" for the driver.
Then you have other concerns like efficiency and pressure loss/gain from the baffle.
Really - you would need to explain what you want for a better idea of matching a proper mid for you.
Last edited:
You *can* use it.. but I wouldn't recommend it.
As for selling the Scan's - they are nice drivers. IF you have another project in mind that could make better use of them then consider holding onto them.
Onto a midrange driver then..
Look for a smaller diameter driver..
It really depends on how you load the driver and cross-over to the AE driver.. IF you don't use any highpass at all to filter the lower end response of the mid then you'll probably need more linear excursion capability (..for a given diameter). Smaller diameter - more linear excursion.
I'd say no larger than 5 1/2" for the driver.
Then you have other concerns like efficiency and pressure loss/gain from the baffle.
Really - you would need to explain what you want for a better idea of matching a proper mid for you.
Well to answer short looking for a sound that pleases me...and if i know it will take trial and error to reach there....theory is if you use best drivers(within ur budget) chances are good sound will come..
Now about the mismatch i thought a lot yesterday this would be my setup
DAC-> DCX2496 -> Woofer amp ->one output to AE12
another output from dcx to
DAC-> DCX2496->NC400-> to RAAL and SS combination
i think i can do some eq on dcx and then send signals to these again eq done around crossover would get impacted but i think i can get the eq before and after the xover point to match them kinda ok thoughts?
V
I wouldn't use anything larger than a 5-6" mid or mid-woofer together with the RAAL:s, preferably crossed-over at 3kHz or higher. 2.5kHz might work with steep filters in the right implementation.
If you want to read about the measurement performance of the RAAL see:
RAAL 140-15D Measurements!
www.audioexcite.com Blog
/Göran
Last edited:
hmm,
i got my raal crossing over around 1450- 1650 hz with hard hipass.
and they work pretty slick with 18cm and 20cm drivers. with a beautyfull dispersionpattern.
and i wouldn`t use anything smaller than a 18cm driver. i now prefer 20cm. it`s just the right amount of dynamic in combination with the raal. what i think is, that the scan speak would sound rather boring. what works great for me is audax aerogel 170, seas w22ny001 and seas w22ex001.
why do want to cross the bass so early?
put the scan into a closed box. should work down to 60-70hz -3db. and cross to the sub at 70hz. with an active 24 LR filter.
i got my raal crossing over around 1450- 1650 hz with hard hipass.
and they work pretty slick with 18cm and 20cm drivers. with a beautyfull dispersionpattern.
and i wouldn`t use anything smaller than a 18cm driver. i now prefer 20cm. it`s just the right amount of dynamic in combination with the raal. what i think is, that the scan speak would sound rather boring. what works great for me is audax aerogel 170, seas w22ny001 and seas w22ex001.
why do want to cross the bass so early?
put the scan into a closed box. should work down to 60-70hz -3db. and cross to the sub at 70hz. with an active 24 LR filter.
Sure, it works... But with higher distortion than a Bose clock radio. Why do that to a $600 tweeter?
How about some tact or helpful tips instead of insults?Sure, it works... But with higher distortion than a Bose clock radio. Why do that to a $600 tweeter?
The Scan-Speak 18W is one of the largest so called 7" midwoofers on the market. It's cone diameter is 5.44" and the frequency at which it would begin to beam is 2500Hz.
Why not do a standard LR4 design at 2500Hz? Simple third order electrical on the RAAL with an l-pad and a second order electrical on the woofer for asymmetrical slopes in order to time align the drivers. A total of only seven parts in the crossover.
Time and phase alignment, good power handling, higher crossover point and steep slopes to keep distortion low in the tweeter, good power response, good horizontal off-axis response, simple, elegant, proven.
I've never worked with the RAAL before, but there are plenty of measurements online which clearly show that the tweeter shouldn't be anywhere near 1450Hz. www.audioexcite.com RAAL 140-15D
Take a look at RAAL's datasheet, all the way on the bottom of the last page. It's an even simpler design, with a single attenuation resistor instead of an l-pad. http://www.raalribbon.com/download/raal_140-15d.pdf
And for the 18W woofer, I like Zaph's approach, beginning of the page under 2-way crossover: Zaph|Audio - ZRT - Revelator Tower
Now this is just theoretically speaking. Without measuring the drivers on your baffle, you'll never be able to guess the correct values, nor time align it properly.
Just as a heads-up, the person at audioexcite mentions distortion is lower when the deflector pads are installed on the Raal. That makes sense, since the pads increase vertical dispersion and also tame the high frequency rise on axis, with the result of also dispersing distortion products through the vertical beamwidth instead of having them focused on axis.
Well the Behringer crossover will allow you to high-pass your RAAL + Mid combo.
As for the crossover between the RAAL and Mid - that largely depends on the response of each driver on the baffle for your design. Still, you *could* eq. the response after the fact, but at best it will be "hit and miss".
You would be (MUCH) better off just going fully active with the Behringer (and with your skill level from what it appears).
The end-result should be obtainable and probably just better overall anyway.
-Just my opinion..
As for the RAAL's crossover (generically - i.e. infinite baffle) - I'd look to a 3rd or 4th order network with a -3 db point (for better overlap at crossover). i.e. "Butterworth" filter. Somewhere between 2.2 and 3.2 kHz. (..the lower it is the greater need for a higher order filter.)
Note that with a full active system (particularly one with digital eq.), driver sensitivity matching becomes much less of an issue - opening up your options a LOT.
From there it's more a matter of:
How large a baffle? How do you want to "load" it (what type of box/open baffle)? How much clean spl do you want/need? (..oh, and this presumes that you have good output from your amplifiers.)
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.