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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 16th October 2012, 09:07 PM   #21
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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ehh, those are PA amps ? built for active drive ? maybe they dont like passive speakers very much ?
hey, just joking

btw, load impedances might have changed with the active xo....and actually, phase could have changed too...and a phase error can be a real bass killer
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Old 16th October 2012, 09:25 PM   #22
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DynaudioAcoustic used to and Quested Audio still use them as studio amps.
Funktion One and Turbosound use and Tannoy used them as PA amps.

Dynaudio and Tannoy were forced to stop using them since they were bought by TC Group who also own LabGruppen.

Since then I added a third (MC750) which before it was mine served in the Abbey Road Mastering suite. Abbey Road are now being paid to use B&W and some lesser amps.
When they had to pay for their monitoring they used Quested Audio.
The engineer I bought it from didn't like the B&Ws very much.

The guy who designed the original DynaudioAcoustic monitors used to believe that there would no difference between active and passive speakers until he built some active ones due to popular demand which did change his mind.

Either way they will drive anything down to a 2Ohm load all day at full power.
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Old 16th October 2012, 09:53 PM   #23
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Darwin View Post
As I said box, room, placement and xover point remained identical.
dont forget one important feature, active makes it more easy to adjust levels on each driver
small changes around xo points might occur as a result
and I suppose active also means another amp
and again, the previously mentioned, possible changes in impedance load between preamp and power amp, due to active xo buffers
it really isnt simple at all
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Old 16th October 2012, 09:58 PM   #24
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The thing that isn't always mentioned is the effect of active designs on the power amp'. I have an early edition of Martin Colloms book on ("High Performance Loudspeakers") and even then, in 1978, he lists about 9 advantages for active designs and I think the very first one he mentions is a reduction in IMD in the power amps. IM can be a real pain and it is interesting to do the maths. If a wide range amp feeds a conventional passive xover speaker the frequencies it handles may well be something like 40 to 16,000. This is pretty conservative. But this is still a ratio 400 to 1. With each additional active section the ratios come down quite quickly. E.g. a three way system with 400 and 3,000 Hz xover points will leave the bass, mid and treble amps only having to handle ratios of 10 to 1, 7.5 to 1 and 5.3 to 1. These are significant reductions and if IM is reducing clarity then active xcross overs should make an audible improvement.
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Old 16th October 2012, 10:13 PM   #25
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Show me a passive xover that can compare with a DEQX.
Add an LT passively, is another example.
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Old 16th October 2012, 10:30 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinitus View Post
dont forget one important feature, active makes it more easy to adjust levels on each driver
small changes around xo points might occur as a result
and I suppose active also means another amp
and again, the previously mentioned, possible changes in impedance load between preamp and power amp, due to active xo buffers
it really isnt simple at all
Fair enough but the most audible improvement was in the bass region say up to about 300Hz. The crossover point was 1.2kHz.
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Old 16th October 2012, 10:44 PM   #27
Remlab is offline Remlab  United States
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I like actives because they allow you measure and adjust several variables in real time, with profound speed( Impossible with passives). Linkwitz, who is famous due to the popularity of LR passives in commercial designs, has abandoned passives for actives because "This arrangement allows the amplifier to take direct control of the driver." Less expensive amps can then be used in the design because they don't have any electrical "hoops" to jump through.
Think, for example, what a single amplifier "sees" when it is driving a passive, three way, fourth order design(eek!). If it were the other way around, and actives were here first and good passives were just entering the scene, could you imagine what the establishment would be saying about the use of passives?
Anyway, I think that many passive snobs probably own and use DEQX's as their dirty little secret..
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Last edited by Remlab; 16th October 2012 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 16th October 2012, 10:49 PM   #28
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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300hz is lower midrange

anyway, it doesnt matter
I know from actual experiences that even small changes at very high frequencies also have effect on low bass
to me personally its just a fact
why it happens ? phase changes
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Old 16th October 2012, 11:04 PM   #29
tinitus is offline tinitus  Europe
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Originally Posted by wolf_teeth View Post
You haven't heard a good pair apparently.
I have heard a good active 3way speaker, ATC Aniversary
and it sounded like a very good passive
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Old 16th October 2012, 11:12 PM   #30
ra7 is offline ra7  United States
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There are benefits to both approaches, and done correctly, they should yield identical results. If you're hearing a difference, try to identify what's causing it.

Active is great for prototyping and running through a number of variations. But once the design is finalized, I'd like to go passive - a simpler, more elegant solution. Of course, crossing below 100 Hz is expensive with passive, and active may be easier.
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