I think you answered your own question.
If it only moves a little bit then it only moves a little a bit.
Stop listening to the rubbish people tell you and have faith in yourself
My dual 15s also barely move. My fingers and mach 3 calibrated eyeball tell me roughly +/- 0.5mm, (and obviously less than that as you go up in frequency)
It doesn't move a lot until you equalize for dipole roll off (doubling excursion for each octave) and run low frequencies through it.
Guess this really sums up what I have found. Theory is one thing but hands on experience is quite another. In hindsight for OB bass woofers I think I would probably consider Xmax less next time, because as you say unless you are really pumping up the EQ to compensate for dipole roll off it really doesn't even come into the equation.
Currently I am listen to Brian Cadd and it sounds fine, a tiny bit short on mid bass / vocals but not much, and I dont have the woofer in the best configuration to maximise the larger driver, so there is more free stuff to come (and a second channel).
And what it is missing is probably in the 100-1000hz range where the mid woofer I dont currently have would fill in.
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I'd say most thumping bass in electronic music is 50-100Hz and generally large excursions happen below that. Equalizing for OB roll-off adds about 10-20dB which is a lot!
I can rarely hear (or feel) the sound when I see the woofers move a significant amount. If there is a visible large excursion it's most likely caused by subsonic content.
The ending of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture bottoms out my woofers pretty bad. Give it a try!
Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture, Op. 49 - TELARC Edition - WARNING! Digitally Recorded LIVE Cannons! - YouTube
I can rarely hear (or feel) the sound when I see the woofers move a significant amount. If there is a visible large excursion it's most likely caused by subsonic content.
The ending of Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture bottoms out my woofers pretty bad. Give it a try!
Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture, Op. 49 - TELARC Edition - WARNING! Digitally Recorded LIVE Cannons! - YouTube
Thanks everyone for their input, I guess the "average" (of those that offered measurements) is "very little" (~+-1mm) for typical music at listenable levels. Which does make me feel better that what I have is not uncommon.
Slight correction, back to front, I have them hooked up in series not parallel as stated earlier. I have my 8ohm mids in parallel.
Cost has never been a strong consideration in this build...
I quite like the sound of the Pro 5100 in the current frequency range, if they had sounded boomy or unatural, I would have religated them to sub duty, and put something else in their place, but I quite like the very subtle blend they provide.
You would think that crossing over from a pair of 120mm mids to an 470mm woofer would sound like absolute crap, but nothing could be further from the truth.
The mids needs some vocal propping up, they measure down to a few hundred hz but there is no real body to them. They have great definition and work higher up but I'm not covinced they have the oomph to pull off really low frequencies.
I have them crossed over to to RAALs at 4000hz at the moment. What I need is a strong vocal mid woofer around 8"-10" so I can cross the mids over higher.
The TC Sounds 18" does a really nice job in the intended 50-200hz range I bought it for, it was never designed to be an all out wall shaker. I have planned sub woofers for that duty.
I know you keen on those GPA 416 and I would like to give them a listen sometime but not for this build.
Next step is to find a suitable mid woofer to replace the 10" hard paper Vifa drivers I had standing in for a temporary bass.
Before I side tracked myself going down the OB route I was actually looking at some folded horn for bass. Might even do that rather than a BR sub cabinet.
I quite like the sound of the Pro 5100 in the current frequency range, if they had sounded boomy or unatural, I would have religated them to sub duty, and put something else in their place, but I quite like the very subtle blend they provide.
You would think that crossing over from a pair of 120mm mids to an 470mm woofer would sound like absolute crap, but nothing could be further from the truth.
The mids needs some vocal propping up, they measure down to a few hundred hz but there is no real body to them. They have great definition and work higher up but I'm not covinced they have the oomph to pull off really low frequencies.
I have them crossed over to to RAALs at 4000hz at the moment. What I need is a strong vocal mid woofer around 8"-10" so I can cross the mids over higher.
The TC Sounds 18" does a really nice job in the intended 50-200hz range I bought it for, it was never designed to be an all out wall shaker. I have planned sub woofers for that duty.
I know you keen on those GPA 416 and I would like to give them a listen sometime but not for this build.
Next step is to find a suitable mid woofer to replace the 10" hard paper Vifa drivers I had standing in for a temporary bass.
Before I side tracked myself going down the OB route I was actually looking at some folded horn for bass. Might even do that rather than a BR sub cabinet.
forget about the sub and just buy another pro5100, you will get better bang for your buck.
What makes a good speaker great is not low frequency response, it is transient response in the region of 40Hz to 200Hz. This is where a lot of music falls that is difficult on speakers. That is why I suggested dual gpa 416, not because they are cheaper, but because it will sound better.
What makes a good speaker great is not low frequency response, it is transient response in the region of 40Hz to 200Hz. This is where a lot of music falls that is difficult on speakers. That is why I suggested dual gpa 416, not because they are cheaper, but because it will sound better.
I already have another Pro 5100 here (I bought two at the same time) only problem is impedence. To run both of the same input I would need to run them at 2ohm or 8ohm. Only other option is to split the output and run it on the other channel of the amp at 4ohm.
I dont want to go putting the cart in front of the horse, I haven't even tried them in a baffle of any kind yet. So I could potentially get significant gains once I do that... kick up the woofer crossover by a few dB and we could be looking at a whole different ball game.
I dont want to go putting the cart in front of the horse, I haven't even tried them in a baffle of any kind yet. So I could potentially get significant gains once I do that... kick up the woofer crossover by a few dB and we could be looking at a whole different ball game.
Just trying to remove some guesswork from the discussion. This is a simulation of the Goldwood 18" driver in H frame as propagated by MJK:
The upper diagram is showing the driver excursion in mm. The Goldwood is very well behaved in how he limits itself below 30 Hz. Most other woofers excursion will literally go through the roof with some SPL near 20 Hz. It is always a very good idea to apply a steep high pass at 20 Hz to prevent a dipole woofer from exceeding its excursion limit.
The upper diagram is showing the driver excursion in mm. The Goldwood is very well behaved in how he limits itself below 30 Hz. Most other woofers excursion will literally go through the roof with some SPL near 20 Hz. It is always a very good idea to apply a steep high pass at 20 Hz to prevent a dipole woofer from exceeding its excursion limit.
Any chance you could please model the same thing with these driver specs? Has plenty of XMax as you can see...
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