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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Application of DSS filter for single-tweeter Dipoles
Application of DSS filter for single-tweeter Dipoles
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Old 13th June 2012, 04:01 PM   #1
gainphile is offline gainphile  Australia
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Default Application of DSS filter for single-tweeter Dipoles

I've always had reservations about the implementation of back to back tweeters for dipoles. Yes they are better than single forward-firing tweeter as the tonal imbalances are fixed, but they have other problems too.

The imbalances with single firing tweeter is due to different radiation between front and back. And normally the tweeter levels are adjusted by ear to correct it to a certain degree (e.g. Linkwitzlab Phoenix). But what if instead changing tweeter levels we use the DSS filter ?

I've had this for sometimes now, and it seems to work quite well. Basically:
- Front firing tweeter only
- Some degree of directivity control using small waveguide
- Equalised to flat on-axis at 1m
- Subjectively adjust tweeter level to a correct level and note the attenuation
- Return to flat, and apply DSS.

The centre frequency is experimental, but the attenuation seems to correspond with the subjective attentuation.

The imbalances are corrected and sounds seamless. There is less sparkle as given by dual tweeters, but there is also much less room interaction and they seem to sound more truthful and direct. Much like listening to waveguide speakers, but with midrange transparency and that articulate dipole bass.

Here, the difference is seen between transition using tweeter level adjustments and DSS. It's quite an easy experiment and I hope to compare notes.

Click the image to open in full size.


There are some other things I'd like to try sometimes in the future, for example placing the speakers much nearer to the front wall (now I have about 3m of space).
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Old 29th June 2012, 07:26 AM   #2
SEdwards is offline SEdwards
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I'm frequently reading your investigation notes, these days. How does the polar plot look, in this case?

I'm quite interested in Rudolph's approach, too, of using a full range 2" to replace the tweeter. As a monopole, this should allow a low'ish XO, which could only be helped by a waveguide. Plus, if we want directivity, allowing the driver to beam a little should be beneficial, no?

EDIT: I see that popeye already proposed this at the Linkwitz forum. Any experiments?

Last edited by SEdwards; 29th June 2012 at 07:39 AM. Reason: found new info online
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Old 3rd August 2012, 06:34 AM   #3
davewantsmoore is offline davewantsmoore  Australia
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Andi. I don't have dipoles, but I've also been playing in this area after following SLs development of Orion3.

I've had very good results, and suspect ears are very sensitive in this region for power response.
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Old 8th February 2013, 04:07 PM   #4
ginopalletta is offline ginopalletta
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please have a look at my experimentations with DSS and Plutos if interested in the subject in a more ample way (i.e. DSS in case of monopoles).

Here is the link to the post in the OPUG thread:

ORION/PLUTO/LX521 Users Group • View topic - DSS for Plutos: Phantom vs. Real Source Direction

(hoping it is ok to link back to another forum).

regards
giuseppe
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Old 15th November 2013, 06:46 AM   #5
454Casull is offline 454Casull  Canada
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Still don't know what the DSS filter is.
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Old 15th November 2013, 09:02 AM   #6
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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Obviously this is about hearing sensitivity compensation? The ear has sensititvy boost around 2kHz. It is general knowledge that this range is critical for sound localization eg. Most peakers also have xo around here, with many issues (phase, directivity, power response, peaks and dips etc.)

If a speaker measures straight here, it sounds harsh. BBC dip is 1-3kHz, is DDS similar? I could not find DDS mentioned in Linkwitz page.
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Old 15th November 2013, 09:59 AM   #7
sfdoddsy is offline sfdoddsy  New Zealand
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The filter in question is the 3db shelving filter from the Orion 3 onwards.
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Old 15th November 2013, 12:19 PM   #8
6.283 is offline 6.283  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juhazi View Post
If a speaker measures straight here, it sounds harsh.
I disagree. That completely depends on the dispersion width of a speaker (and the room). With narrow dispersion designs the FR can be straight, omni even benefits from a peak here.

That is part of my findings when searching for the right eq. for my omnis.
Here is the link.

Interim Conclusions

The text is a bit lengthy but it does not only talk about omnis but wide vs. narrow in general.
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Old 15th November 2013, 02:16 PM   #9
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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I must clarify, that "straight is harshs"
- it is based on 0n-axis response!

My own listening experience and measurements and excercises with minidsp support what 2pi said - it depends!

I have found that I (like SL and Jon Marsh among many others) find most pleasing sound when on-axis has this bbc-dip and 15¤ off-axis is slowly descending to highs. This is largely because of high-end has usually more beaming

Like this: 1,2m on-axis and 15¤ horiz off-axis (60ms) and room response at 2,2m 10¤off-axis (500ms). My speaker is rather constant-directive but it has a widening peak at 2kHz.

Room response has dip around 800Hz, it is front-wall nulling. Also floor reflection and room modes are seen
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File Type: png ainog vxx4 04 15¤ rooml.png (84.0 KB, 70 views)
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Last edited by Juhazi; 15th November 2013 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 15th November 2013, 02:53 PM   #10
Juhazi is offline Juhazi  Finland
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OK, now I found it in SL's text

"Let's call this filter DSS (yes, it also de-esses), short for "Don & Siegfried's Shelf" because it may be unique to the ORION and /or to the two of us. The DSS works for us, but it also carries universal aspects. I suspect that the "BBC Dip" is related, because of its ability to control poor recordings."

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